Almost 50% Have a Difficult Time Transitioning Into a New Career After the Uniform with Brian Niswander

KP: 0:29

This episode is powered by Aktau education, go to www dot ATT now education.com For free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty veterans, military spouses, and children.

Brian Niswander: 0:46

There are people out in the industry that want to help you. And in return what they get is they understand this talent we call the military. So take the approach of you are going to give just as much as you receive in a mentoring relationship. It is not a one sided, you know, equation here where you're just going to receive you're also going to be giving. And again for those career civilians they want to understand the military.

KP: 1:10

Fall in it's time for formation. Today, we're joined with a 20 year Air Force veteran who has a knack for stats and data. With that being said he served as an intelligence officer in the Air Force. We have Brian nice wonder, he transitioned his military skills of analytics into the betterment for future veteran generations. And in today's episode, Brian is going to explain how exactly he does this. Ryan, I want to welcome you to the morning formation podcast. KP, thanks for having me on your show. It's an honor. Like I always say the honor is all on this end of the microphone. And with that being said, Brian, let's just break the ice right off the bat here. And I want to ask you, as a 20 year Air Force veteran in active duty and reserves both can you tell our audience What's your most fondest funniest or most memorable moment while in uniform?

Brian Niswander: 2:04

You bet you bet. Well, again, thanks for the chance to be on your podcast and talk your audience. So almost 27 years active duty and reserve time. And I guess I'm most fond of the the time that I spent with folks that they invested in me and helped me become a better professional. So a number of officers helped me but a lot of senior NCOs actually helped me. And I am certainly appreciative of all the time and energy they invested in me, and I'm trying to be able to give back to them. So that's what I'm most fond of. I also have some really funny stories from one of my assignments, and maybe I'll hold those to the end. That way your audience has to listen to the entire episode. So they catch one of my great stories from when I was a young lieutenant.

KP: 2:49

Oh, boy, I was a young lieutenant in the army at one point. And I can tell you that there was a lot of lot of funny stories that I have as well. Being green and being new in the military and, and even even leading up to that going through training to become an officer. There was a lot of funny stories. So we're looking forward to hearing some of those, Brian, you know, can you talk to us and explain to us the motivation behind military transition.org? And what it is?

Brian Niswander: 3:17

Absolutely, absolutely. So to do that, let me kind of roll back the hands of time. So I mentioned earlier that I served in the Air Force, almost 27 years I was an Intel officer. And I love to tell folks that all you do is an Intel officer, as you take data and information and you put it into context for a decision. It could be a tactical decision, a target that you're going to strike or it can be a strategic decision. There is a room dictator that has a ballistic missile that could reach a potentially reach the American soil. And that's not good for the American public. And so what do we do about it? So what I learned was an industry does the same exact thing. They take data information, they put it into context for decisions. My first job when I came out into corporate America was here in Cincinnati, with Procter and Gamble, and I took data and information, I put it into context for decisions on big consumer brands. And I learned that the skills that I applied as a Intel officer applied directly into corporate America. While I was there, I also had the chance to do a lot of recruiting of fellow veterans, all branches, ranks, you know, people from all these different walks of life. When I separated, there was no tap. And so I'm a big fan that there is tap today. But I feel like we owe servicemembers the same rigor that we use when we apply data and information for decisions for national security or for business context. And that's what really gave rise to the lessons that we apply here at military transition.org. So we go out and we collect data from the experts, those are veterans that have made the transition. And we make that available free of charge, everything we do is free of charge, to to the service members, to their families, to their spouses, I will make that available. But I also learned that service members all ask the same types of questions. When I think about what follows their service they as What does someone like me with my education skills experience? What do they do in civilian world? Are they happy? Do they like it? Is their family happy? And what lessons that they learned that I can apply to my transition? They all ask the same questions, but they want data that aligns to their background and their unique profile. So I was Air Force. I had a bachelor's degree, and I was an Intel officer and I wanted to live in the Midwest. And so if you were a Maybe ie five Associate's degree. And you were a radar technician, and you want to live on the West Coast, same questions, but you want a data that align to that profile. And so that's what we do. That's what our interactive data dashboards provide is that level of fidelity that aligns those answers specifically to your profile?

KP: 5:49

And well, you know, God bless people like you, Brian, because when it comes to the numbers, and one, when it comes to collecting those numbers, and then laying those on top of other numbers and additional pieces of data, and correlating that to what's really happening out there, that's something that is very, very unnatural to me. But I love seeing the results of that specific product. So very thankful for folks like you. And from my understanding, you've collected data for the last two decades, right?

Brian Niswander: 6:20

I have actually. So I've actually worked by service members for over two decades. And then also through the interactive platforms that we run. So truth be told, though, we actually started running the surveys where we collect the accurate data that we share through a tableau interactive dashboard, that's the dashboard that we use, we started in about 2014, is when we actually started collecting from this particular survey. But I've been working with other service members for the past two decades getting these lessons learned. And we use those lessons learned through a number of the materials on our website, we might get a chance to see some of those here in a bit. But also some of the transition guide books that we now offer free of charge. You know, service members are inundated nowadays with the information out there. And so we're trying to make it as easy as possible for them to get access to the most accurate and relevant information. And so that's where that data is applied.

KP: 7:13

You know, another part of you, Brian, that I absolutely love is the fact that you're doing this as your passion, your motivation is simply to help others find that better career transition, when it's their time to get out. And I can, I am one of those folks, you know, they say around 80% of military professionals that transition out of the military typically leave their first job within the first year. I am one of those folks that did just that. And it was mainly because my transition, I decided to try to go at it on my own. And I didn't really hit the nail on the head when it came to finding that ideal profession when I got out. So I struggled a little bit. So I absolutely love what it is that you do. Can you talk a little bit about the data's the data and the lessons that you've learned some fascinating pieces of statistics that you might want to share with us that is part of your, I guess, part of your dashboard.

Brian Niswander: 8:12

You bet KP we've got like data galore. So about 80 to 90% of the metric data that we collect is actually available through those interactive dashboards, you can also see the raw comments that the service members provide to those key questions. And you can break those out by branch and ranks. So it's all available there on the site, we do go through some of the comments because as you know, service members and veterans can have some colorful adjectives in their language. And so we try to we'll tweak those a bit. Other than that we provide the raw comments, you see the exactly as they provide it. There's a lot of places on our site where you can also see the other wall comments. But having done this for quite some time, and I am a data geek. I mean, I absolutely love doing this stuff. I mentioned earlier that I was most, you know, honored with the folks that invested time and energy me when I was on active duty. And so this is my way to be able to give back. I truly feel like I've been blessed. And this is my way of to be able to give that back and pay it forward. And that's what we ask is the people that use our data and information and lessons that they pay it forward for other people and for other veterans that follow them in this in this process. So okay, so two decades worth of working with veterans. And so let me walk through some of the highlights. I'll walk through first the the five key takeaways after two decades. And then a little bit I love to talk about some of the recommendations. There is no one size fits all solution. But there are some key themes that you find when you survey 1000s of veterans and you start to do the analysis of what they're saying. Okay, so here they are to decade's worth of learnings and I'll give you the highlights. So first of all, the transition is difficult, right? But there are ways to be able to reduce that difficulty and confusion that exist. When you talk to 1000s of veterans. What you hear is this continual theme of that they are crossing into the unknown. And so we took that concept of crossing into the unknown and we did a pretty heavy analysis we came up with there are three groups of service members that go through the transition. Those that are completely unprepared for the complete unknown, so unaware and unprepared. It's like the ambush waiting to happen. And they just keep, you know, failing and failing over and over again. And we're trying to spend a lot more of our time and energy trying to help them it's about 24% of the veteran population or service member population. They fall into that group. And then there are those that are prepared for the unknown. And they're somewhat prepared. And their level of unknown is largely dependent upon their level of preparation, they have some good skills that transfer. And the more they prepare, the less that unknown is. And then there's the group that are really, they don't transition to the unknown, they more transition into the unfamiliar. And these are folks that have skills that are readily transferable. So your pilots, your medical professionals, by the Intel folks fall into that group as well, they can walk out and get a job with a national agency. So it's almost a PCs with civilian clothes. So they have these skills that transfer really well. And they're prepared to be able to make that transfer to transfer and translate those skills. And that's about 31% of veterans, they fail to mention that second group is about 45%. So the majority of veterans fall into this group that are unprepared. And the unknown is largely dependent upon their level of preparation. So lesson number one, lesson number two is that education and awareness are critical. Because a lot of veterans keep making the same mistakes as those that have gone before them. We study history so that we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. And that's exactly what we're doing here at military transitioned out of work. So we learn from those and reapply that what can we learn from veterans that have been successful quickly? And how do we reapply that? And for the veterans that continue to have systemic issues? What can we learn? And how can we address that group and help them overcome those challenges. The third lesson is that the transition is personal, the individual solutions tend to be the most effective, one size fits all solutions, as I said earlier, aren't aren't effective. And they're everywhere, you can find them everywhere. So we're trying to tailor things to those unique groups. And the key is, though, taking personal responsibility, you have to take personal responsibility of your transition. And that starts with these five different recommendations that I'll give here in just a few minutes as well from from two decades and working with service members. The next is that you should use the full range of services that are available. There are about 40,000 veterans service organizations that are out there today. And that's fantastic. I call it the sea of goodwill, and I love it. But you can also drown in the sea of goodwill. So you have to be choice for the organizations that your partner with. And so we offer a lot of different recommendations on our site to help point you to those organizations we think are really impactful that can really help you. And the final lesson is that realize that the past doesn't equal the future good or bad, you shouldn't feel constrained or entitled, based upon what you did in the military. So if you want to do something completely different, that is fantastic, you are not locked into what your MOS or AFSC was a used to have to have enough time to be able to prepare for what that follow on career is. But you also shouldn't feel entitled. So if you were a senior NCO or a senior officer, don't feel like you're entitled to a senior position in industry, when you transition, you might have to start with a mid level or maybe even an entry level, type role and learn that organization. And then you can get promoted quickly based upon your experience level. A you never take somebody from the outside and they want make them a sergeant major, or a an O six, Colonel. That's just not how it works. They don't understand the culture that we have in the military. And that same thing applies out in industry. So I get that decent mid level role and then learn their culture, learn their language, and then use that experience that you have to get promoted and to do great things. So there's two decade's worth of learnings. And then also on a good I can talk about the five recommendations that you hear when you survey 1000s of veterans.

KP: 14:16

That's absolutely outstanding. To know, several, actually, most of what you mentioned resonates with me specifically because I got out as a captain. And I thought that I was entitled to a, you know, a job at a certain level. And I thought I felt like I was locked into my specific job specialty. I didn't even think about jumping into a different type of industry. And I've learned over the years that it's best to have a variety and a diverse background when it comes to your education and your experience. For example. I have a my undergrad is in criminal criminal justice, which I got from the great Wright State University as I mentioned earlier, right? Well, grad degree, I have an array right here, all right, and I just got a a project management certification through DOL coach. So I have a very, very diverse educational background. And I think over the years that's kind of helped me out as far as being a little bit more I guess, a little bit more diverse when it comes to my decision making skills overall. And so a lot of what you mentioned, I truly understand And I definitely stand behind as well. As far as the overall data that you've collected. I know you mentioned earlier that you put all this on your dashboard. And I want to underline for the folks out there that are listening, that everything that's done here that you review doesn't cost you anything. And the number one goal that Brian is trying to the number one product for this for for the number one goal for his product, I should say, is to create a better tomorrow for our future generations so that you better understand how to transition properly. And Brian, do you want to break out the dashboard for everyone out there?

Brian Niswander: 16:09

You bet. So KP, if you wouldn't mind showing, there's two different dashboards that we have. Currently, there'll be more in the future as well. The first one is based upon all the surveys that we've done with veterans, so the experts in the transition space, and so they share their experiences. And so you can go in, and I can't see if you've got it up or not. But you can go in and actually put in your branch rank. And it looks like we might be having some technical difficulties on that right now, that's not a problem. If you go to our website, military, Dash transition.org, on the top banner, you'll actually see a tab that has results. And you'll see for military. So that's where you get access to that dashboard. We also have learned years of service, your education, specialty, mos AFSC. And it will give you 10 pages worth of data. And then there are additional pages on that dashboard that show you who is in the data set. Employment, I didn't mentioned earlier, but I call it transition intelligence. So again, I was an Intel type, and took data and information and put that into context for decisions. And that's the approach that we use for transition intelligence. So all the metric data there, and then also all the open comments so you can see how they react, how service members and also spouses react to key transition and deployment related questions.

KP: 17:36

Yeah, I don't know if you can see it on your end, Brian. But I actually have the the dashboard for the military spouses pulled up and I just had the dashboard, or the service service member side pulled up. And so right now it's on the first page where it says, How do you feel about it's on the Military Spouse Employment survey where it says, How do you feel about your current employment? And so yep, I'll make sure that I incorporate this. Yeah,

Brian Niswander: 18:00

a lot of spouses. Please do please Do you have a lot of military spouses that are under employed, so they have incredible skills, and they're not able to fully apply those. And so we're trying to bring a lot more awareness around that. And a lot of the lessons that we learned for service members also apply to spouses. I have talked a lot about the data that we offer the data dashboards and the metric data. But there are also a lot of lessons learned on our website. If you go to the downloads page, there are a number of white papers there that talk about how to actually prepare a resume. Things like how to prepare for interviews, how to prepare for a career fair, there's lots of insights. And those are all based upon firsthand experience. And then one other thing that I wanted to highlight a case, the both of us have mentioned that everything we do is free of charge, and also highlight that we are in the business of creating new original content around the transitions, space for service members and for spouses. And so we're not recycling other materials. We're creating new original content that we provide on our site. And then also, in a bit, I'd love to talk a little bit more about the transition guidebooks that we offer. And those are all new original content as well, based upon our metric data, and also the lessons that we've learned through two plus decades of experience.

KP: 19:23

Yeah, so right now, Brian, I have it on the ready, read or download today. Truce about the military tender transition book one. And I see you have Book Two on here as well. So those are available Absolutely. Through transition.org as well.

Brian Niswander: 19:40

Yeah. So we have received incredible feedback on both of the books. The first one truths about the military transition 10, hard hitting truths, data based truths that every service member needs to understand. In fact, we think service members ought to have that the day they put the uniform on because decisions you make in uniform will have an impact on your future options. So really understanding what the future holds is what the truth about the military transition is all about. The second book, winning the employment game veteran, in addition, that is based upon two decades of experience in the public and private sectors, with lots of hiring actions, either being the actual hiring official or part of a hiring panel and Hanoch hiring process. And so a lot of those insights are there for you to learn, and it really takes talks about learning the rules of the game. There's an ancient proverb that says, if you want to be successful in any endeavor, the first thing you do is learn the rules of the game and then apply those rules. And so that's what we try to do is to demystify those rules. And then we give you some examples of how those are applied specifically for veterans. So really positive feedback, or both of those. Those are the first two books and a whole series of transition guide books that we'll be putting out there short to the point easy reads. And then we also give you resources, the back end, and pointing to other organizations that we think are providing some great content and materials to help you along the way.

KP: 21:08

Absolutely awesome. Brian, do you want to talk about this? On the free downloads portion? You have a, I guess, a visual up here where it says military to civilian life transition information, risk of a problematic transition? Did you want to talk about that the service members that percentage of service members increased?

Brian Niswander: 21:33

Yeah, that is the that's the chart that goes along with the discussion I mentioned earlier on these three different groups. So on that chart, I think it has a group that shows 24%, those are the unaware and unprepared individuals. And then there's a group 45%. And they are preparation drives the level of unknown as they enter the transition space. And then there's and then again, 45, and the other group is 31%. And those the folks that are more transitioning into the unfamiliar, they're really gonna go do the same exact thing they did in the military on the outside, and some of them might even be doing it for the government themselves. That is a heavy analysis that we did. And it also breaks out those groups who tends to be in those groups.

KP: 22:20

Yeah, most definitely. So as you guys can see, here, the military transition.org is a great place to go one stop shop to get your guide books to look at the dashboard and find information that's not generic, but very specific to you, your branch and your rank. So definitely check it out. There's a lot of free downloads on here as well, that can help you hit the bullseye hit closer to the bullseye anyway. And that's an ultimate goal is to find that that profession when you make when you make that transition, you know, Brian, one of the reasons why I do the morning information podcast is I know, firsthand how difficult it is to transition out of the military and convey your skills to a potential, you know, civilian recruiter and try to get that job that you want. And number two, you know, we do have a huge issue with our military service and the amount of suicides that's going on. And I truly believe that part of that issue is what we're talking about right now. And the hardship of transition where you find your ideal salary, ideal job, ideal location, and all those things. So, Brian, I, this is why we do what we do. And at the end of the day, everything that's being offered on this website is free. So please take advantage of it if you're a service member listening to this right now. And, Ryan, if you'd like to talk, Brian, if you'd like to talk about those five points. I mean, let's, let's get into that.

Brian Niswander: 23:43

Absolutely. KP I'll jump into that. I just got a real quick tangent. So your point of veterans suicide. So our next transition guidebook is we're really trying to get more at that particular issue. There are 12 challenges that we've seen that service members, and families for that matter go through. And so we try to highlight what those 12 are. And then we highlight some tactics for them to be able to get after those challenges. And then also some recommendations for employers of things that they can do to help. So that's what's next in the queue. Hopefully, mid summer, we'll have that one published and super excited. It is a fantastic read full of lots of great info. Okay, so, drumroll here on this one. So, when you survey 1000s of veterans, again, I mentioned that there is no one size fits all for a successful transition. But when you survey veterans, what you hear is there are five consistent themes that lead to successful transitions. And so I want to highlight what those are. The first is they recommend that you start preparing early for your transition. In fact, we have this is our flagship. I don't know if you can see this, but this is our flagship flyer. And on this flagship flyer, it actually has these five recommendations. So number one is start early start preparing early for a transition. 84% of veterans recommend that you start early for the transition, because veterans consistently underestimate the amount of time that's required for the transition. 59% will tell you that they underestimated the amount of time it would take them to make a successful transition. I mentioned this earlier, but you ought to start thinking about what follows the service the minute you put the uniform on because the decisions you make in uniform will have an impact on your options, post military life. And so really, that leads to recommen nation number two, and that is to then start having a transition plan. And what do you want to do after you serve, start doing your homework. And the biggest part of this is really self reflection, a lot of service members don't do adequate self reflection. And think about what do I want to do after this is all over because again, you can do anything you want, you just need to figure out what that is and start thinking and planning well ahead. And then that plan helps you achieve that objective. Key to this plan is also starting to build your network, your coaches and mentors, because they're going to help you along the way that leads to recommendation number three, network or build your network, this is the most recommended aspect of a successful transition. 86% of veterans recommend that you network and build your network, I recommend, you know get on LinkedIn, build a profile. But LinkedIn is just a tool, right? It's just a tool where you can actually have connections with others. Real networking is when you talk to people have this interaction have this exchange is a mutual exchange of information. There are lots of people out there that want to help you not just talent pool, and the better they understand it, the better they can reach into it and help service members with their transition. There are people out in the industry that want to help you. And in return, what they get is they understand this talent pool that we call the military. So take the approach of you are going to give just as much as you receive in a mentoring relationship. It is not a one sided, you know equation here where you're just going to receive you're also going to be giving. And again, for those career civilians, they want to understand the military, a lot of time and energy be able to translate your skills. And that network will help you as you practice that. So talk about your hard skills, which are easier to talk about and translate. But really soft skills industry is very hungry for your soft skills. But a lot of times it's how you frame those and how you present those, it's really difficult to do and so takes time, use the network. And then the final recommendation for success, successful transition is to be patient didn't become a soldier, sailor, airman, Marine Guardian overnight, you're not going to become a civilian overnight, as well takes time, takes patience, you're going to have challenges, it's going to be difficult. But give yourself some grace and just realize, you know, your plan is going to adapt as you progress along, add grace, stick with it, and it'll take you home.

KP: 27:49

The best thing that I like about what you're doing the products that you're that you're putting together as you put these very nice visuals together out of these rather black and white statistics, but you take these really nice graphics, and you apply this. What's because someone, some would consider boring statistics, and you make them into these nice visuals, easy to read, easy to look at easy to understand. But then what you just did was you talked about the five successful transition tips. And you even laid those out to where it's very, very systematically easy for you to understand. So that's, that's an art in itself, Brian, and I highly recommend anyone to check out military transition.org, mainly because it's so simple to look at Brian has taken all this complicated information, all this confusing stuff, and laid it out for you to where you can easily look at the visuals, you can take the five tips that he just mentioned, right there and everything that he's talking about. I went through, I understand what you're saying, Brian, and it's definitely something that service members need to take into consideration before you know you can I always say this, I always say you can hear the waterfall but you can't see it. And you know, at some point you're going to transition out, everyone's going to transition out at some time. And I've actually heard you say that before, in some of your previous interviews that at some point in time, all service members are going to transit transition out of the military, whether it's in four years, or 20 years or 30 years, you're going to be leaving the military at some point. And so this is something for everybody.

Brian Niswander: 29:26

Yeah, give me that truth that transition Truth Number One 100% of service members are going to transition. So you need to understand that and most of your, you know, predecessors have said that it was difficult, and you didn't understand that. And so some tactics to be able to get at it. I love your comment of we try to make things as simple as possible. And here's why. It is difficult, it's stressful. It's challenging. And what we didn't want to do was add more noise and confusion to that and say, Hey, we have all this data, but you got to like dig through it and sort it out and figure it out on your own. And, and then that draws them in to be able to get access to all the other information that we offer on the site, as you've already mentioned. And again, all of it free of charge, and it's our way to be able to give back.

KP: 30:11

It's absolutely outstanding. And, Brian, I want to ask you this question, because it's something that I've encountered and dealt with over the years and you being the person that you're being at the center of this data collection for our military community. What do you feel like is the disconnect between civilian recruiters and military prospects? X.

Brian Niswander: 30:31

In my mind, a simple answer to that is that recruiters don't hire what they don't understand. So the disconnect is they are looking for talent, they're looking for the skills that you have. But you don't explain it in a way that makes sense to them. They don't understand. They didn't wear the uniform. And so the stories that you tell have not broken through that filter, they have to see how it applies in their organization, and how they need what you're talking about. All of us have been in incredible situations in uniform leadership followership all those soft skills that we have, but you have to frame those so they understand. So to me, the biggest disconnect is, and sometimes it takes servicemember a while to figure it out. And they go through interview after interview after interview, and they finally start refining this, where they could have spent time with their network and had the same conversations that had the same learning before they, you know, missed out on several incredible jobs. But that's the disconnect is that recruiters hiring managers don't hire things they don't understand. And so your translation is so they understand and a KPI appreciate your comments earlier about how we make things really easy to understand from our website. That's exactly what we're doing on our site. And you need to do the same thing. And I will tell you, on our end, it takes lots of time and energy to be able to make these really complex. You know, statistics and analysis look simple. And it takes lots of time to be able to make your story sounds simple, and have the person or the individuals on the other side of the table, say that's the person I want. They have the skills, proven skills that we need. And not just you know, leadership skills in a, you know, peaceful environment and austere conditions where no kid and lives are on the line. They know how to they know how to do business. You got to translate your stories to make them that simple.

KP: 32:25

Yeah, Brian, exactly. 100% man, because I mean, I when I went through the process myself, and this is a true story. I was sitting in front of two recruiters for this one specific company. And I was telling my story about, you know, I can't remember what question they asked me, but I was giving them a story of situation action results. And three stories, three stories in one of the recruiters I noticed was literally falling asleep, like literally falling asleep during my so I really don't think he understood what I was talking about, like what I was talking about being able to leader running convoys. This recruiter specifically I know, never served in the military. And, and I don't know if he just didn't have any sleep, or he just got bored because of what I was talking about was going over his head. But that really changed my demeanor and my confidence overall, when and later on, I found out that he did it during everybody's interview that he was this specific recruiter was literally sitting upright, closing his eyes and leaning forward while they were talking. And I said, Yeah, man, I thought it was me. And he was like, talk to four other guys. And they're like, No, the same guy did the same thing to me. And I was like, Well, maybe he just didn't know what he was hearing or what he was listening to. And it just wasn't, wasn't interested. So recruiters don't hire what they don't understand what happened. Best way to put it. Yeah. So. And, yeah, and I want to ask you, man, so when it comes to the ranks? I'm sorry, go ahead.

Brian Niswander: 33:56

No, no, I was going to amplify on on the example of, you know, there are recruiters out there that do, you know, have issues with staying awake, you see that a lot of different things. But the more engaging you make those stories, the more interesting because we all have interesting stories, you know, and so don't hold back, but make sure that that interest that you drive, draws them in. A key measure when you're when you're making a commercial is, you know, the ability to recall. So you can't buy a product that you don't remember the commercial for. And so those stories that are engaging and relevant, drive that recall ability, and so, you know, make it engaging, and your network, those informational interviews will really help you to be able to do that. But sometimes you get somebody that just can't stay awake. But, you know, fight that with making it interesting.

KP: 34:46

Yeah, and you have to make it to where they understand, you know, Brian, you're taking all this data and all these statistics from 1000s of veterans, right? I mean, and you're and you're trying to tell a story, you're trying to break things down into layman's terms, you're trying to break that cultural barrier between military and civilian? Well, as an individual, it's difficult for me to sit at a party and talk to someone who's never been in the military and explain to them what I did during my time. Imagine taking 1000s of veterans and their own voices and their own stories and our own data and trying to take that those 1000s of stories and translate them over. That's what you're doing essentially, as an individual, I can't do it. It's very difficult for me to do it. I shouldn't say can, I can, it's just very difficult to do. But that's why I'm saying you're doing such tremendous work, man. When I look through your dashboard, and I see all these different things,

Brian Niswander: 35:43

I truly appreciate that. I will say this that the guidebooks again, that's our newest projects, and they are, you know, 20 to 24 pages, our longest is not longer than 24 pages. But when we first wrote each of those, they are like three times as long as what they are now. And we painstakingly like just started cutting it down to get it simple, concise, to the point, we didn't want to belabor the issues we didn't want, you have to read, you know, a huge novel to get these core concepts across. And so it took gobs of time. But the only thing that kept going through my mind was the the Mark Twain quote, of a vida had more time I'd written you a shorter letter, everything we do embraces that Mark Twain philosophy, we try to make it as tight, crisp succinct as possible to minimize any confusion around it. But again, it is really difficult to do. But it's the same approach you need to take when you're telling your story to a recruiter to whatever organization you want that dream job with, because it's paramount that they understand. And you gotta be right on the money, you have a limited amount of times to break through. And that's how you do it is preparing. Not easy. I don't care where you're at. And it takes time. And that's why all those five recommendations starting early, you need lots of time to be able to do it. And that gets factored into your plan, your Network helps you with it, translating your skills, it's not just how you deliver those in the interview, it's also on your resume, resume is like really, really important. On our downloads page, you'll see there are two different papers. Each of them has 10 recommendations for resumes. And I will tell you at one point in my career, over the course of about six months, I read 3000 resumes, and I was a resume reading machine. And that's where those all came from. And over the years, I continued to like, refine them and improve those. But those those just flowed out of watching or reading lots of resumes over a short period of time.

KP: 37:37

Wow. And you know, my final question for you was going to be what was the most optimal move a current service for the current service member could make? And you kind of answered that question right now. And it just sounds like preparation, preparing for that next career shift going into civilian world. And I think that linking up with folks like, like yourself, military transition.org is a is a definite move in the right direction. And you mentioned so many things today from like networking, you've given us so much value today. And, Brian, if anyone out there is interested in connecting with you, or contacting you, what's the best way for them to do so?

Brian Niswander: 38:17

Absolutely. So the best way or the way that I would really prefer is to look me up on LinkedIn. And send me a note on LinkedIn, I accept any invitations to connect. I love connecting with service members, veterans, spouses, and corporate partners as well. So please make use of LinkedIn all the website.

KP: 38:38

And for those of you who are listening to this on the podcast, if you scroll to the bottom of the show notes there, you're going to see all of Brian's contact platforms. So LinkedIn has email, I'll even put military transition.org down there, and any other ways that you can contact Brian, as well. Now, if you're a visual person, and you're listening to on a podcast, and you don't have the YouTube and you weren't able to see the screenshot that it did earlier, you can find all that at military transition.org as well. It'll be available there. So scroll down to the bottom of your screen, whether it's YouTube or any of the 19 platforms that we're on. And you can find the links to connect with Brian. And Brian, just to round out today's episode. Today. I want to give you an opportunity to talk to our listeners out there. Do you have any final pieces of advice or any suggestions for folks out there, part of our military community?

Brian Niswander: 39:31

KP again, thanks for the opportunity to be on your podcast to talk to your audience. I've given you lots of data, lots of information, I'll just go back and re emphasize to the things that I said because they were kind of buried in all the all the comments that I made. You know, when you start preparing early, you have that plan. Really it starts with self reflection, thinking about what you want to do next. And the other piece that I would say is that we have this mindset that we're all adaptable, it's a fantastic skill, but that alone is not going to get you hired. I see a lot of veterans that will say, what do you got? What kind of jobs do you have, I can do anything? Very, very true. And we pride ourselves in that. But when you go out into industry, they want somebody that can do a specific skill, the ability to adapt and adapt that to different environments is is great, but just being adaptable alone or being a leader is not going to get you hired. So that self reflection is really critical upfront. And I can't can't highlight that enough. talk a lot about trends. stating your skills, having patients having grace, but really starts with that, knowing yourself and knowing what you want to do. And those five recommendations that service members say use those to your benefit to kind of shape your path forward.

KP: 40:42

Great advice, Brian, great advice. I found myself smiling. They're part of what you're saying there. Because that I, I was there, man, I transitioned out of the military, I struggled. And I did my best to prepare, but I tried to prepare. I tried to prepare on my own man, and, you know, without the help of others, and I ended up not hitting the dartboard necessarily. So our goal here, Brian, between the morning formation podcast and military transition.org is to help those future veteran in military spouse generations have a better transition and have a better life moving forward. And that's what it's all about. And I want to thank you very much for being on the podcast today. And for folks out there listening, please check out military transition.org Please connect with Brian on LinkedIn. Brian is a great person to have as part of your circle, your career transition circle as well if you're currently in service right now, and pride it's been an absolute honor and for those of you who are listening out there, I want to always tell you this and I always end my episodes with this. I want you to stay tuned, stay focused, and stay motivated. Warriors fall out