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I believe in leveraging technology and advances in in technology in general, to help save many of the problems that exist in the planet. I kind of picked the environmental one, I dig that the other part of me is helping veterans because I got to see kind of firsthand what works and what what drastically vets need. Again, because I was in the chaplain Corps, I kind of had a unique lens on that, if you will, in terms of counseling and working with VA and working with nonprofits.

Thank you for tuning in today, folks. Lately in the news, we've been hearing a lot about cybersecurity and its overall importance, especially as we progress further into it automation and artificial intelligence managing some of our major infrastructures here in America was such an uprising, as many opportunities have created to bridge the gap and lower professionals into a cybersecurity career. In September of 2020, the University of North Carolina and Charlotte along with several other universities was awarded a grant from the National Security Agency to develop certification base and national training for a number of transitioning military and first responders. The program is being offered online and free of charge the folks within our military community and today, we are very fortunate to have a program manager and recruiter from the University of North Carolina in Charlotte. Mr. Steve Olson, he's here to talk to you about opportunities available, and to give some insight on himself as a fellow military veteran. Steve, thank you for joining us today. Thank you KP happy to be here, honors all ours. So it's important for our listeners to get to know the folks behind the scenes who helped create, maintain and operate such programs, such as the one being offered at your university with the cybersecurity Workforce Development Program. So let's learn a little bit about who you are by telling us where you're originally from.

Well, I've got kind of a maybe average isn't the right word, but kind of an Americana grown up story was born here in Carolina and dad was a salesman and mom was a teacher moved up to Chicago and then spent most of my life growing up in Naperville small suburb, and now pretty big suburb outside of the city, and kind of found my way back to Carolina but joining the army and got down in Fort Jackson and then ended up going to college in the mountains of Carolina and have just stuck around ever since I love it down here. I missed the deep dish pizza and the sports up in Chicago. But otherwise, I'm pretty happy to live in North Carolina.

Yeah, I'm very familiar with Chicago, when I saw Naperville on your LinkedIn I was thinking was at Naperville in the Carolinas was it Naperville in Chicago. So yeah, I know what you're saying about the deep dish pizza there. I much love it every time I traveled through the city of Chicago have it? Gotta have it. Gotta have it. And at what point did you decide to join the military? And what was your overall motivation? Well, I've

got a an easy story there. I always wanted to serve my country. And it seemed like the right thing to do. I was the first one to join the army and my family for a while is a London Air Force Navy. And I walked into recruiting office. And I had a recruiter asked me what I like to do is really a real simple question. And I said, You know, I like to go to young life and youth group. I'm pretty involved with my church. And I've always wanted to shoot a gun. And he said, Well, we got a job for you. And I saw I was a chaplains assistant immediately. And I was the only job I didn't the army and loved it. But it was a really cool way for me to be able to take my skills, or at least my interests when I was growing up and in youth group and giving back to the community and working with nonprofits and be able to do that in the army, though in a much different capacity.

Yeah, that is a much different capacity for sure. And so how many years did you end up serving in the army reserves and what was your rank when you decided to separate?

I came out as an e4 and served eight years in the reserve had a great time. I think the coolest thing I was able to do and you know, for a while I was doing mostly religious support, but I got really involved with the cyst and Ace I used to be called the but the applied suicide intervention courses that the army was offering and, and went to the coursework to become a combat teacher of the course and to assist in teaching that workshop, you know, civilian clothes, you've got officers enlisted, they changed the name of this course, kind of frequently when I was in it was called assist. But it was really cool to kind of kind of learn more about that and be able to be a part of suicide prevention training in the army. And through that I got to know a lot of nonprofits, veteran transition groups, and, and the likes, especially in the southeast, but great. It was a great experience. It was glad I did it.

Yeah. So would you mind sharing your experiences on being a reservist and a full time college student as well as a part time employee I know that I can relate to what that's like myself. I started out in the military in the National Guard enlisted, I had a 30 hour a week job was in ROTC and was a full time college student sometimes over full time, or had to get the, the special request to take the extra credit just like a graduate on time. So what was your experience, like with such a full plate?

You were doing it all KP, that's fantastic. It was a it was a good experience. I enjoyed it. My I went to a very small school called Barnard College, very proud, proud alumni of that school. And my faculty were very, very pleased to work with me around my schedule with, you know, going to annual training or just, you know, the long drills when they came up. And when I went on eight orders and got pushed back a semester and came back at a weird time. You know, if they were they were great to me and and I worked for Wells Fargo and a couple of jobs worked at a toy store, I just had a normal college kid really just kind of had few part time jobs, and tried to balance it with work, but I thought it was great, I kid you not GAPI, you'll think you wouldn't believe me. Because the school I went to is in a tiny town, we I think my graduating class of 113 in college, but this tiny school in the mountains, there was an Army Reserve unit across the street from the college. Literally, this is a tiny little school in the mountains. And it happened to be the small postal unit. And I was able to eventually transfer but for a while my unit was letting me as a chaplain assistant, I was able to kind of help with a lot of different units in the area, and go around and teach courses. But I had a non traditional very non traditional reserves experience for a while there. But a very positive one, being able to try and blend them all together.

That's really good that they worked with you, as far as you know, your locations. I know. Sometimes when you're out in the mountains and stuff getting from point A to point B requires you to take a road that's winding and, and whatnot. And so it's not as easy as people think. And so that was great that they worked with you, I was very familiar with the National Guard doing the same thing as well for some folks. And sounds like you had a very, very nice experience in relation to your college as well. So yeah, yes, sir. What would you say is this as you look back on is impactful and deciding where you are today and what you know, now, I might get sappy on you that all right. Yeah, man,

marry my wife 100% 100%. I think that she's been a very positive influence on me and reminding me to do of all things pertinent to this conversation, but to do what I actually believe in like something that doing a job where I get to go home, and I'm happy about it, right now I get to help. That's, you know, that's, that's one of the best ones in my book. My other passion is taking care of the environment and being a steward to our planet. So, you know, if, if I can do both things, I believe in that. So she reminds me to keep my eyes on the prize. And I like to kind of quote my my own like mission statement, if you will, is I believe in leveraging technology, and advances in, in technology in general, to help save many of the problems that exist in the planet. I kind of picked the environmental one, I did that the other part of me is helping veterans because I got to see kind of firsthand what works and what what drastically vets need. Again, because I was in the chaplain Corps, I kind of had a unique lens on that, if you will, in terms of counseling and working with VA and working with nonprofits, all that. But you know, I think my wife has been a good influence on that, and keeps me on the path where I continue to work jobs that I believe in, and I enjoy. So I think that there's I think in cyber too. You know, I think there's opportunity to do that, as well.

I understand what you're saying, when you talk about, you know, finding a greater purpose. And I think a lot of a lot of veterans within, you know, people who leave the military are separate from the military, we look for that. How do we still help? How do we still like be a part of someone else's life, you know, a positive influence? And that's one of the reasons why I also started this podcast as well. And so that's, that's I completely identify with what you're saying, in your current position. uncc you serve as a program manager and recruiter. Could you tell us a little bit about the cybersecurity Workforce Development Program and some of your responsibilities in your position right now?

Sure, absolutely. Well, I guess if you don't mind, I'll first tell you how I got this job. So I was I was already working the college I was doing all sorts of stuff in waste and recycling and energy. And I saw that they were looking for somebody that had been in the military, who spent some time in higher ed, and was comfortable with computers and was for lack of a better term a geek. They can Speak, they didn't say that. But that's kind of one of my coin terms, you know. And I, for some reason fit that bill. So I hopped on this this contract with the National Security Agency and work for the college and, and it's great. So in a just our program started through Purdue University up in Indiana, and they had a few other universities jump on and partner those with faculty that specialize in, in artificial intelligence systems administration, digital forensics, some of the Hot Topic cybersecurity fields. And together, we all built a completely remote, completely online six months to a year depending on whether how many classes you're taking, I can get into that later. But a program that gets vets and members of first responder community, they're the industry recognized cybersecurity credentials that they need to land an entry level job, or if they've, you know, got other degrees or some experience coming out of the service. And even a mid level job and beyond. So in a sense, we have a lot of different certs that we offer. But unlike a lot of academic programs, and there's many great ones out there, we're funded, but with federal grants, so it's not free, because you use your GI bill or whatever tuition assistance. This is, this is a grant funded opportunity that's remote, asynchronous learning, it's very new, very exciting to be a part of, and, and, you know, we're excited to see where it's gonna go.

Yeah, it's very exciting to see that there's a lot of push for folks to get into that, because the cybersecurity field can be kind of scary for non it, folks. So would you say that this training is for non IT personnel as well as seasoned? IT professionals? Absolutely, sir. Yeah, I'd

say it's a little bit of we have so many various situations with our students, the program was not designed with the idea that it would be for IT professionals necessarily. We welcome them, you know, they bring a breadth of knowledge coming out of the field, but in a way we've designed it to be for for those that don't come from it just as much. That's not to say our program isn't rigorous. But we're kind of poised and in a good position at our program where even if you don't have it experience, and you get them into the program, it is going to be difficult for you likely, but very doable. If you if you set your mind to it, we're poised in a situation where our measure of success because we're grant funded, and because I think we just believe in it, that our students have to pass their certs. So we have designed a program and our faculty have designed a program that everything is geared towards helping them succeed, we've got tutors, we have a virtual lab manager, we've got a lot of great professors that are open to you know, help one on one. So I would encourage those, and a lot of my students that have already gone through the program are not coming out of it, but are coming from a military background or law enforcement or something like that, they've got the skills, they're determined, they're, once they set their mind to something, they know they're gonna do it, they're able to keep their time and an organize themselves in a manner that's going to make them successful. And, you know, often they're, they're pretty patriotic, and a lot of these jobs in cyber are kind of going down that road. So I think that out of all communities, the military community is a really cool one. It's kind of like a no brainer, I can throw you a million articles that say, you know, take a vet, know it experience, get them cyber creds, and they're gonna be very successful. I mean, that's been common with a lot of Fortune 500, state local government. So that's a long winded answer KP, but I want you know, the people listening to know that having it background is great, but don't if you're not, if you're not sure that you're you're able to do it, our program has an IT assessment that we have at the beginning to give you an idea of what you're going to learn. So yeah, I just don't want people to be discouraged, not they don't have the IT skills already. We'll teach them.

Yeah, it can be very intimidating. But I mean, even yourself, you came from a non it background, and transitioned over into where you're at right now actually, running this, and maintaining this, this program for the university. So I mean, you speak from experience as well. So that's, that's huge. And so, the training in itself. Can you talk about some of the different types of training for non it and it experience cohorts?

Sure. So the way our program is basically structured is we have three training pathways. They all share the common three certs that are kind of like the, the basic industry recognized certs that comp Tia plus security plus and your Cisco cyber ops. So those courses in there and the certs that that our students take and eventually hopefully will pass are kind of the baseline and standard through all three pathways, but our three pathways of digital forensics systems administration, and artificial intelligence, they all have kind of different elective courses that you take so your final three courses might look a little bit different and And the certs that you get eventually are slightly different to whether we're they're doing Red Hat, Linux plus Python essentials EC Council, CH a, that's your ethical hacking cert, your EC council ch fi forensic investigation badge, your AWS, the Amazon Web Services machine learning badge. I mean, these are these are really good exams that they are working up to, some of them costing more than 1000 bucks just to take that we cover the cost. You know, there's there's different fields for those that are interested in, in different aspects of cybersecurity, but we make sure that all students have the basic general understanding that standard throughout our programs,

would you say that this program is more of an intermediate level endeavor or something new to the field, or some something that someone new to the field could start with? Someone in the field could

definitely start here. You know, I like to be realistic with with prospective students, you know, I'm not interested in and trying to recruit people that aren't going to be successful or aren't going to be a good fit. But I think it's it's about being determined and getting the certs that you want cyber is one of the few fields out there, that you can get a job with the right certs in lieu of advanced degrees. And that's not to say there's a substitute for for getting an undergrad, you know, I would encourage many military transitioning members to to get their undergrad as well. I think that it's helpful, and especially for certain federal jobs, if that's the route they want to go, but I think we're poised to be in an industry where certs are, are everything, and even having a degree in cyber or computer science, but you don't have some of these cyber creds, it's going to be tough for you to get that job when when you have companies that are saying I need X, Y and Z. And those x y and z certs are what you need to do. So yeah, I think it's it's it's really about how determined and willing people are. But I think it's a field that that's it's it's growing. And it's and we already have KP we have, I think I checked this morning, before we were for one of those podcasts, there's 491,000 cybersecurity jobs that are currently unfilled, vacant, mostly due to a lack of trained personnel. So these are good paying jobs. And they don't require eight years of schooling. You know, you mentioned not coming from it, I, I went to school for environmental science, and then GIS and spatial analysis, environmental assessment. And that's how I got into the world of computers and data analysis, spatial analysis. There's a little crossover and a cyber and not a whole lot. But you know, my field, I kind of joke with some of my students, when I, when I go through kind of like the timeline and the service they can get, and here's what the jobs generally pay in these sectors. And then I look at myself in my own field, it's like, Oh, I think I need a PhD to make close to that. If I can even do that one day. So I think, you know, it's a great, it's a great opportunity for those that are not coming in, don't have an IT background, they want to get some certs pretty quickly. But there's no substitute for being a lifelong learner. that's a that's a long answer, again, KP, but hopefully a decent one.

Makes a lot of sense. So could you walk me through who would be a great candidate for the fourtrax within cybersecurity?

So, you know, it's tough to answer exactly who would be a great candidate. I think that those that serve in the military for, you know, let's say that eight year mark, or 10 year mark, where, you know, they're getting out, but they aren't quite at retirement, or maybe they want to transition into the federal state sector and kind of round out their retirement years with a job that's going to be admittingly, a little bit better work life balance. You know, I think that's a great fit for him. I think those that are retiring from the service that are, you know, looking at their pension, and they're happy with what they've got, but they still want to give back to their country, their community, or they just want to, you know, supplement their income. I think it's great for them. But you know, it's great for the guy who was an 11, bravo spent two years in, he's coming out maybe as an associate's, maybe not. And he's not sure what he wants to do. But he's, he likes computers, he wants to learn more about them, and he wouldn't mind a pretty good paying job. So you know, I answers a lot, a lot of situations would be a good fit.

Yeah, I guess it varies for for just about everyone out there. So well, what was the route that that you took,

in terms of like my transition and kind of getting into the workforce? Yeah. Well, I taught high school KP I didn't know what I was going to do. So I did this program called Troops to Teachers and and Teach for America. I kind of double dipped in both programs. But my route was if I before I have, before I learned it all. Why don't I learn how to teach it the I've heard the same before that you learn most by teaching someone else, you know, you gotta like, I found myself teaching high school science. And there'll be times where I'm googling stuff before my lecture. And but yeah, it's it's crazy how quickly you learn stuff and ingrains in you when you have to teach it to 35 kids, and also monitor cellphones and everything else. So this isn't necessarily my path to everything, I don't know where my path is gonna lead next. But what I what I have learned is that leveraging technology is the wave of the future. And it's integral to everything that's, that's related to job security, and for the way businesses running my classroom was, was completely integrated digitally. And, you know, everything had my, my students had laptops. And, you know, it's, it's a lot easier, in my opinion, to leverage technology, especially with young, you know, young students and young servicemembers anybody really, then to try and fight it. I think for a while, it's, I don't, I don't mean to get into a topic of education. This is all education, right. But it's hard to fight the cell phones, the technology, but right, these, these young students, KP I mean, this generation, I don't know what the generation is now. I think I'm a millennial, the next one, z, or x, z, I think z. And they're so good with their phones. And some of the students I met, they're not so great with typing, they're not, but if you kind of, they pick it up quick. They, they know the stuff quick, I mean, in some ways, they were too smart. And they could get around, you know, some of my digital assignments, but, but the point was that, that, that this is the future. And when I got to my next job at the college, you know, it was originally a waste and recycling job and, and I quickly started to leverage using GIS and a bunch of other software to try and kind of bring our waste and composting to the 21st century. And, you know, that's kind of just the direction of everything. So I can speak for the school system, the military and higher ed, that all of them are getting increasingly technologically advanced. And with that comes cybersecurity threats. intellectual property theft, comes with gaps in your own infrastructure, your cloud system. So the farther we go, the more IT pros, but the more cybersecurity pros we're going to need. So in my journey, you know, to getting to the to where I am now, it's, I didn't, I didn't expect you to go this way. But I think that my continuing like desire to get more certs and learn more about computers, whether that cyber or something else. I know we're talking about cyber, but anything that you can advanced in computers and your knowledge of them, I think is is very beneficial to your career and could save you some money to

you know, the thing that I love the most about your story is that you went from chaplain assistant, to working in cybersecurity for a university. And, and I like that story, because many people think, you know, early on, like, Oh, I really want to get into cybersecurity, the military is really not going to help me get to where I need to go. But in this situation, in this case, it could actually elevate you, and give you the opportunity to take the courses that you need to get where you need to go. And it's it's one of those situations where you kind of got to think outside the box a little bit and not think so narrow, when you're looking at what are your long term goals. And that's what I loved the most about your story is you just got an Asmath, and you started walking in that direction. And as you walked in that direction, like opportunities presented themselves and you chose to take them and here you are today representing this awesome program. And I just want to reiterate this, this is a grant and this grant does cover the exam certification fees, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah, appreciate your kind words, thank you. We cover the cost of three certificates out of the program, you can get even more than that. So you can do our program and no cost at all. But we've kind of designed that for two reasons. One, a lot of our students come in with their a plus and security plus not not too many, but a handful. So by doing three we can offer to more students, but part of it is also to kind of encourage our students have a small bit of skin in the game, if you will, a very minor investment if done correctly, you the students get to choose the waivers that they want to use on their certs. So I mean, you could be looking at maybe if you don't have any certs at all, maybe paying for one or two, if you choose to, it's optional. And in a year program that could lead to a better job you're talking about a few $100 investment. So and again that's optional, but yeah, yeah, we pay

for the tuition and the certs up to three that's that's pretty huge because I know a lot of times they're off they offer the training for free but then the certification you have to pay for so this is this is pretty awesome. And then the the types of jobs and salaries and titles. I know you briefly went over them but what are the different types of salary titles and jobs that are are available to folks who successfully complete these programs.

Now, that's a great question. straight off the bat of being being a security analyst, for a small company, like let's say, you went through our digital forensics track, you got our certs, you'd be you'd be eligible to get a security analyst job with a with a small or medium sized company, entry level, and they generally pay 55 to 60,000. To start, I'm speaking more for the Carolinas, you know, really, obviously, geographic wherever you are. But cyber in general, across the across the nation is a job field where the salaries are commensurate, if not exceed, sometimes greatly The median income for whatever township you're living in, so it's, especially in regards to educational equity. And what I mean by that is that there's a lot of fields out there, as you know, KP that, you know, you make good money, if you have to advanced degrees, or you've done XYZ, whatever. But there's not many fields where you can say, if you just have these certs and the skills, maybe maybe even an associate's In addition, that you can be making 60 grand and the sky's the limit there. So, you know, IT support it analysts, they getting these skills would still be helpful by going through our program. But, you know, doing our program and then coupling it possibly with another educational program, maybe a bachelor's degree and, and computer science or something completely different. You know, you could be a forensic investigator with the state government. And, you know, depending on your military background, you know, sky's the limit Quantico Langley is they're always hiring. You know, there's a lot of there's forget, I won't misquote it, but there's a lot of intelligence agencies, just in the US alone. And every year, they're hiring more people and information security. So there's a lot of different jobs that are that are that are possible cloud systems administrators too.

Yeah. Like I mentioned at the beginning of the show the job security is there for sure. I mean, it's a growing field, you know, that folks are looking for protection, you know, with their infrastructures, especially online, and how would you say that, then it professional could leverage their experiences along with this training for a career position.

I think someone that's already working in it, whether it's anything from a mid level programmer to an entry level technology assistant, I think that they are, would have a very nice transition into cybersecurity, whether it be right for them, I couldn't, I couldn't tell you, but they're there, their computer skills they would already bring in would be really helpful in getting these certs as cybersecurity is kind of a cool field because it's its niche. But the list of certifications that you want to get to kind of get those gigs is not super long. So that transition can be a lot quicker than then than others.

How does one scale this philosophy up after you have some certs and some knowledge and you're making 60 grand a year? Where do you go from there?

Well, I think, you know, in every, every institution is different. But one option is to take some of these certs and these classes and transfer them to a master's program, or bat or an undergraduate program I mentioned before Kp you know, college is not for everybody, our program is a great testament to that. But it's, you know, being a lifelong learner and believing in being an adult learner as well. And, and always continuing yourself. And from an educational standpoint, I think it's great. And I think once you've gone through college level courses like ours that are that are rigorous, you're easily ready for an undergraduate program. And if you've already been to one masters, I think that you can easily couple certs with with degrees and and and in addition certs always changing. So I mean, a lot of these don't last forever, so you got to renew them and companies will sponsor that many do. But computers and in general, the changes so quickly, the technology changes quickly. So it's something that it's a it coincides well with being a lifelong learner anyways, if you're working in it, is it's always something new happening, always something new to learn. So being open minded to that mindset, I think is helpful.

Yeah, most definitely. And just curious if anyone listening would like to contact you about this program? How can they get in touch with you or someone from your team at UNCC?

Oh, well, I think the best way to be check out our website first, cw ct.us I think it should be linked after this podcast and and they can feel free to give me a call or send me an email and I think those would be linked as well. But we're that my job as a program manager recruiter, if you will, you know half of it is just to spread the word and then I try and spend time with every A prospective student that I talked to, you know, say, Hey, 1520 minutes, when can we do that? Let me get you on the phone, let me see why you're interested in a move to cyber why you want to take our course. And let's see if it's gonna be a good fit for you. That's, that's our goal, you know, we're we're not interested in, in in anything else except finding good quality applicants that we think are going to be successful. And, you know, we'll do everything we can to help them as they go through the process. But we're all open. I serve on a team. So I'm kind of like the East Coast guy for operation. But we have project managers that work out of University of Tennessee, Chattanooga, Purdue and Ivy Tech in Indiana. So we've got a great team. Steve, there's another Steve, Rex, Chrissy, there's four of us that work as program managers, but we're very available to talk on an individual level with with somebody that's interested. And, and I can't stress this enough, there is not a correct situation that fits this program. It's not like, you know, when's the right time to start up? Any other academic program I, I consistently are talking to retired Sergeant Majors. And, guys, they did two years and got out. You know, I consistently talked to those that had a service connected disability, and the only kind of work that they really are looking to do right now is on a computer. You know, I talked to folks that, you know, in so many different situations, they're working as a cop right now. And they want to upskill in their current job, because they want to get towards doing forensic investigation at the state level, you know, or they want to get with the Secret Service one day, there's, there's no recipe for success that is already written for you, you get to write that recipe. Right. And, you know, I can only speak for the the tech stuff, you know, but but I think that goes KP as you well know, right? I mean, that that goes along with anything you want to do in life, I mean, it. I just don't want anyone to hear this stuff off. I talked to a lot of people that hear cybersecurity, they hear about it. And, you know, I'm a little embarrassed sometimes when I say Well, I'm not a cyber security professional, necessarily. I'm a computer guy. I'm a GIS guy, but I'm not a cyber guy. So, I mean, that's not like the answer of how do you get in, get into cyber, but it's kind of like you noted in my story earlier, which is you made it sound better than it really was. But you know, there's a path for everything. And I think just trying to be open to learning more is a great way to do so. But if you have questions about our program, I'm I'm kind of rolling off here. KP, I'm sorry. He got a question about our program, we're more than happy to talk to you, I'm more than happy to discuss how it can be a good fit in your current job, or if it's a way to connect to your next job and kpf. If you don't mind, I don't want to jump ahead of you. But could I talk a little bit about just jobs like employers and groups like that for a second?

Yeah, certainly, most certainly. I

think and I left this out of my story. And and this is probably the biggest, one of the biggest points was I got connected with a veteran organization that, you know, similar to act now but kind of acted in a different capacity. Sheep Dog. I'll give them a great shout out sheepdog impact assistance. They're great. They're an Arkansas based group, but they got chapters all over the country. But they they got me plugged in with them. And they helped it started with you know, they kind of had a connection with the unit. And then they invited me to a Spartan run paid for my Spartan run. You know, I don't know if you've ever done one of this KP Have you?

I did something similar that it was the men's health. It's called the Men's Health ultra THON or something. It was it was in the city of Chicago.

You just kind of you run it, but you also got to do weird. athletic events.

Yes. Yes. This was early. This is before Spartan races ever came out. Okay, so I wasn't expecting I wasn't expecting all the obstacles. I didn't prepare for them.

I mean, I could barely keep up. It was it was a very, it was very humbling experience. Because they it was there's a lot of there's a lot of guys and gals that were there that were you know, not in the same situation. I was if you could say, you know, I had, I had one or two, two more legs of my own than some of my buddies that did it. And they beat me easily. I mean, there was there. It was really, it was really cool to see. You know, that's with all different types of situations doing that. And, but it was also Yeah, I realized I was really out of shape, too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But it was it was absolutely fun. But anyway, so you know, getting plugged in with a group, right? KP I'm sure. I know. You're, you're networked and you're connected with a lot of groups that I'm talking about in the like, but I think there's no substitute for a veteran. That's true. envisioning, or just in general, for making sure you're plugged in with some sort of organization. That's my personal belief that it worked out really well for me, because they were able to help me with everything from mock interviews, resume prep, talking to people that already work in the field. And it was great for me because I got to still be able to do and I still get to do it kind of some of the things I liked about being a chaplains assistant, and I got to still do that. So I think for some servicemembers, they'll miss some of the things that they were doing in in the army, or the Marines or whatever. And getting connected with these groups as a way to further yourself in your own career. And probably a way to give back to your community and give back in ways that some some troops might miss. At least that was my experience, because I get to do volunteer stuff with them. And then they helped me, it's great. So I would say we have partners that we work with in that regard to to try and help to place our we're not a job placement group. Of course, we're an academic institution, there's my little liability comment. But you know, we do our best to try and link them up with partners that on a daily basis work with corporate recruiters work with state and local agencies, regional offices for federal groups, so that we can help the best we can to prepare them to take that next step and get that first job in cybersecurity.

With so many possibilities for careers in it, how do you decide on which field to pursue, especially if, if many fields are might be of interest to you?

Well, I think that's, that's part of the reason why all three of our pathways are have same common three courses. I mean, those are kind of across the board. Kind of must haves a plus security plus and cyber ops to kind of get into the to an entry level job, not all but most of them. But it's you know, I don't want to be biased about anything I I'm kind of biased towards the artificial intelligence path we offer. I think AI is kind of the future. And that AWS machine learning badge is really cool. But you know, a lot of folks also think cybersecurity and they kind of lean towards forensics, I think, because it's kind of a natural mind leap. Kp, right? Like you think about cyber, I want to work in that. I want to catch the bad guys. And that's cool, there's a lot of jobs, you get to do that, you know, and they want to become a forensic investigator. And they want to, you know, find gaps in their own infrastructure. And they want to do that. And that's cool. But what I recommend to any students is, I could talk here all day. But I think the best thing to learn more about where you want to end up in cyber is to to go to some of these websites, not just ours, but like the comp Tia website, the EC Council website, and read up on what these certs actually teach you how to do. And, you know, and I'm going back to the veteran transition group, you know, I think that we as an, as an academic institution, we can answer a lot of questions about what our courses are, where they can lead and all that. But and we're building a mentor group within our program, but again, finding somebody that's kind of can mentor and to help you, you know, look through it, because I'm not 20 years in the cyber workforce, right? I'm not I'm really, I'm a vet the transition and got to do some cool stuff to find where I'm at now and makes me hopefully pretty good at my job. But I'm not 20 years in so I think that there are folks that some in our program, and what speak for them. But no, no, that answer better than I do Kp

that, like I said before, the best thing about the best thing about you is you You came from a field that wasn't exactly lined up to be you know, where you're at right now. So I think that's an awesome thing. And so I always try to entice people to diversify their education and their skills, even if you're considering going into something because a lot of those things that you learn, whether it be in project management, or like what we're talking about here in cybersecurity, you can take that to almost any industry and apply a lot of the lessons that you learn Yeah, so that we just wanted to touch on that real quick that I doubled down on what you're saying about that. That's extremely important. So this could be a game changer for you as far as who you are within your team or within your department. Absolutely.

Sometimes when you've got two different kind of skill sets you can be he can do even better even learning that job or in itself. I think KP you don't want the fact checker one day you might have one on your podcast you know the pull it up on what I'm saying? It'd be kind of fun to do you know, like Joe Rogan has but I think that in the last like 10 years again, I'm doing a paraphrase a little bit but acceptance to medical school is higher for those that have a you know, a humanities degree than those that have a science undergraduate degree. I mean think about it normally thinking oh cool premed go biology, but those that have like a history degree or poly sigh, have a higher acceptance rate with similar GPAs you know, because the field is already oversaturated with Those that have that so and it is maybe not one of them oversaturated with computer science people were they're drastically drastically looking or excuse me, they're what's I'm losing the word Kp, but there's a million vacancies. And there's a huge workforce gap, if you will. Yeah. in finding pen drawing trained. Yeah. Yeah. It's growing quickly. And it's been a hot topic. KPMG Have you seen all the stuff about like, the colonial pipeline? I'm sure the Meatpacking group. It's gonna, it's good press for us. But it's also Yes, you know, a testament to the urine culture and in, in, in cyber Yeah.

So, alright, so I will definitely put everything in the show notes. And just a final everything out is Is there anything that you want to? Is there anything that you will mention to folks before we wrap it up? I

don't think so. I think you know, the CW CT program we build is a pretty cool remote way to be able to gain cybersecurity credentials in a pretty reasonable timeframe. So rigorous program, but very doable. And it's a really good stepping stone to enter the field of cybersecurity. And our goal is the same as yours, to better yourself and for us to do anything we can to help you better yourself in your career. That's really it KP I so, so very thankful for having me on this podcast. And I'm excited that the morning formation is going to be an avenue for folks to be able to enter cyber for this for this series, right?

We really want people to think outside the box when it comes to something like this. A lot of folks out there listening may not think that cybersecurity isn't for you. But you know, even Mr. Olsen here, found himself where he is right now. And as we mentioned before, look at the news, look at what's going on in the world. I mean, this is something that's growing. It's it's what's over the horizon. It's the next big thing. So at least take a look into it and see if this is for you. And like he said, they do have an assessment for you to do early on to see if this is something that that you might thrive in and something that you might actually enjoy. So thank you for listening everyone today. Steve, thank you for joining us as well, sir. Looking forward to hearing more about the program as time goes on. And for the morning formation. This is KP with Steve and we're out