TEDx Speaker & Military Career Personal Brand Strategist: Lida Citroën Interview Part 1

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It happened to be the week of Veterans Day, right? So November 9 2009, was during veterans week. And the team brought some Fort Carson soldiers onto the field to talk about military transition. And for some reason, I paid attention. And what they talked about was how difficult it is to take off a military uniform, and try to make yourself relevant and compelling and interesting to a hiring manager or employer in the civilian sector, who may have no understanding of what your military experience was. And I had about a year before that started a company doing exactly that helping individuals and executives and professionals around the world tell their story in a meaningful and relatable way so that they would become more interesting to investors or employers. So when the when the soldiers gave that message about how hard it was, I remember I looked at my husband and I thought, Oh my gosh, I could totally help.

Thank you for tuning in today, folks. Hope everyone is having a great week. today. I am honored to have a guest that is very genuine. In her mission and overall career purpose, I have misleader sit, Rohan joining us today. Thank you for giving us your time today, Lita.

Of course, it's my pleasure to join you.

Lita has spent her career as an executive brand strategist, a world renowned consultant, executive coach. And as an author, she has been featured in many publications and presentations to include Inc, Forbes, entrepreneur, Bloomberg, MSNBC, Google act now education, and has been a TEDx speaker. So before we start talking about the military side of the conversation, I'd like to take it back to the very beginning. Because from what I understand, you're from the Los Angeles Hollywood area, how did growing up in that part of California impact you and your overall way of thinking, when it comes to personal branding?

You know, it's an interesting story that I really hadn't thought much about until I was getting ready to write this latest book that I'm publishing. And that is growing up near the entertainment industry, where everything you're involved with every person you're connected to is somehow it seems connected to the entertainment business, right? Los Angeles, Hollywood, is movies, television, celebrities, actors, actresses, producers. And growing up in that environment. I never wanted to get into the entertainment industry. But I had a lot of friends who were. And I remember in high school, I was dating an actor. And he said something really profound. I asked him what it was about acting that he found so compelling. And he said, I get paid to play the parts of other people, I get paid. And if I'm valued, I'm good at pretending to be someone else. I read the script, someone else's written and I fulfill that role. And his word stuck with me years later, when I got into business and realized how many of us do that almost on a daily basis, right? We go to work, we try to chase this corporate dream, or we try to build our career. And in some ways, sometimes we feel like we're playing the part of us in a script that somebody else wrote, but it doesn't really feel genuine and authentic. So I think that's what really compelled me to do the work that I do today.

That's really interesting. That's a really interesting perspective, because that is true. When the lights turn on. You become a different character, a different person, a different brand.

If you're an actor, yeah, right.

Now, I've watched several of your presentations, where you talk about why you began such a career emphasis on helping the military community with career transition and personal branding. On November 9 2009, was a special night. You and your husband were invited to a Denver Broncos game. And what took place at halftime was very special. And for those listeners out there who haven't heard, can you take us back to that night at halftime? That NFL game?

Sure. Yeah. And you know, I I'm a diehard Denver Broncos football fan. But the team wasn't doing so great that year. So it was no surprise we got free tickets to that game. But normally, you know, at halftime, Kp I don't pay attention to what's happening on the field. I mean, I admit that's when I'm checking email and getting something to drink or stretching my legs. But it happened to be the week of Veterans Day, right? So November 9 2009 was during veterans week, and the team brought some Fort Carson soldiers on to the field to talk about military transition. And for some reason I paid attention. And what they talked about was how difficult it is to take off a military uniform. And try to make yourself relevant and compelling and interesting to a hiring manager or employer in the civilian sector, who may have no understanding of what your military experience was. And I had about a year before that started a company doing exactly that helping individuals and executives and professionals around the world tell their story in a meaningful and relatable way so that they would become more interesting to investors or employers. So when the when the soldiers gave that message about how hard it was, I remember I looked at my husband and I thought, Oh, my gosh, I could totally help. I mean, this is what I do. And my husband looked at me and he said, Honey, with all due respect, what do you know about the military, because no one in my family or my immediate circle of friends had any military connection. I didn't know anyone who had worn the uniform or waited for someone to come home from from service. So I didn't know what I didn't know. And I spent about six months, literally knocking on doors, trying to find an organization or a place where I could go and volunteer my expertise and my services to help those men and women coming out of uniform to learn this thing called personal branding, which we know in the civilian private sector is huge in advancing our careers. And it took a while. But once I did get that opportunity, I was hooked. I mean, absolutely hooked. And it's been years that I've been doing it since

that seems like a very special, genuine moment. And you're very fortunate to actually have that because there's a few people that never they go their whole lives, and they never really have that moment of Aha, you know. And so I think I'm a true believer that things happen for a reason. And I've seen a lot of your presentations, and I can tell that you're a very genuine person when it comes to wanting to help. And so I can really, really appreciate that. I'm really glad that that actually happened. I'm glad you went to the Denver Broncos game, even though they were having a losing season.

Yeah, they played the Steeler. So it was it was not going to be a good game to begin with. But well, and let's face it, you and I've talked about this right, I have the easy job, you and the other men and women who've worn the uniform. That's where the gratitude goes. And and I do this work, because I am a proud American who enjoys the freedoms and liberties that you and others serves to push to protect and ensure. So it is with a big heart that I'm just really grateful for that service.

And we certainly appreciate you as well. So specific to the act now education presentation that you conducted last month, you talked about culture and fitting in as being one of many things employers look at. And I can fully understand this notion of military veterans not fitting in, because it's estimated around five to 8% of the entire US population ever served in the military. And as a veteran myself, that means that I'm surrounded by over 90% of the US population with no true understanding of military culture. So it's very difficult for military minded folks to simply fit in. Now, from my own experiences, my first civilian employer operated a Young Professionals Network. Another fellow veteran of mine who worked at the same place, we just got out of the military fresh out of the military, we both attended a few of these young professional events. And we attempted to fit in at some of these tables during this event. And as soon as the group found out that we were military veterans, and not from any specific nearby University, or part of a fraternity or anything like that, we were just left to basically talk to each other. We stopped going to these events eventually. And we because we just simply couldn't fit in, what advice do you have for any military service member out there looking to transition? Or a veteran that has found that culture and fitting in is a difficult task?

Well, I mean, it's a huge question, right? And it's a real challenge. You're coming from an environment where you knew the rules, you knew the culture, you knew what was expected. The military, as it's been explained to me, is very predict predictable in terms of its systems and processes and, and do's and don'ts. And now you're going back into a community that you were part of before, because let's remember that the military recruits from the same job pool that civilian companies do, and that is you were civilians first and then you became a service member, and then you became a veteran. And it might feel like you're returning to something that you should intuitively know. But those of you years of wearing the uniform and serving, we're in a very specific culture. And it would be anybody who goes from what they know into something very different, is going to feel a sense of disconnect. Yet everybody looks and sounds like you. I can tell you also, from a civilian standpoint, I feel that same way if I go on to a military installation, right? I mean, people look like me. I mean, we're all humans, we all have, you know, the same ideas or thoughts and body parts and etc. But we're different. We come from such different experiences. And the challenges you're describing are very similar challenges to what a civilian would feel if we were in a military context. Because we don't know the rules. We don't know. I remember realizing that there were follow up questions I could ask, I never knew what to ask if somebody told me they were in the military, I would just kind of go, okay. Now I can say, what branch of the military, what did you do in the army, like I was so excited to have follow up questions that I could use to go deeper into a conversation. So first and foremost, that fish out of water feeling isn't just unique to veterans coming into the civilian sector, it would be the same as going to another country and trying to fit in. But what you're also hitting on is that culture within a company is a very real thing. And as I talked about in the act, now, education webinar that I did, culture for a company is where they invest billions of dollars. It's their personality, the company personality, it's the look and the feel, and the kind of people who they recruit and retain. So there's a lot to that fit that companies hire for. And if a company hire somebody who doesn't fit into that culture, I mean, that's the first part of the breakdown, right? You hired somebody who isn't a natural fit. And if you don't onboard that person, and integrate them and teach them the written and unwritten rules of how to thrive in this company, that's going to be a challenge. But I would say for somebody trying to assimilate or blend in or find their space in a new company, the first thing to do is understand what that culture is, right? What is the personality of that organization? Because Amazon is very different from JP Morgan Chase is very different from Deloitte is very different from Google, very different cultures. Right? So understanding what are some of those norms? What are some of the consistencies that they look for in the people that they hire, and assuming you aligned with those in the interview process, because you should know that before you accept a job, then bringing those forward in conversation, and maybe not leading with all of the military narrative, right, which is really hard to do, if you've just come out of uniform, that's what you know. But civilian employers will often say that one of the challenges they have is that new hire that veteran, all they talk about is the military, right? every example that they're going to use is, well, this one time when we were on the battlefield, or this one time when we were in a, you know, in theater, and the people around them have no idea what they're talking about. So as much as they're trying to fit in, they're actually kind of holding themselves out. So understanding the company culture, finding those areas where you connect with the values and the personality of the company, and bringing those forward first, maybe leaving some of the military examples, to later conversations are some great ways to start fitting in and get some of that traction going.

That makes a lot of sense, actually, kind of turning it around the other way and seeing that a civilian on a military base, you know, would feel the same way. Oh, yeah. Also identifying with people with experiences that they may be able to relate to. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Let me let me give you one more example. So one of the things I talked a lot about in my transition programs, and I think I touched on this in the TED Talk is the uniform, right? So I teach on on military installations. I see people in uniform all day long. I can't tell rank and status by what's on a uniform, but the other people on the room shirt can write, somebody walks in and everyone else knows by what that person is wearing, where they rank and who's higher and lower and all of that. I am clueless. So we don't have that in the civilian sector. You can't tell my rank and accompany or my level of influenced by what I'm wearing. And that right there is a challenge for many of the men and women coming out of uniform

to go along with our conversation of culture. How should one learn to bridge humbleness with bragging about their accomplishments?

That's a great question. One of the first things I have to address whenever I teach or mentor on personal branding is that building a brand and being self promotional does not mean the same thing as being arrogant or bragging, right? Because arrogance, and bragging is being large and in charge loud and proud, right? That's not the same thing as being strategic and intentional about who you are and how you want to show up. There's a fundamental difference in how you and I talk about each other KP, right, because you're going to talk about yourself, as using the collective, we know that service before self, that military value of service before self means, don't take credit for the work of others don't take credit for the service of others, but always take accountability and responsibility. And that's fantastic. But it presents a challenge when you come out of uniform, and you're surrounded by people like me, who love to talk about ourselves. And we'll use first person and be very proud of our accomplishments and our successes. And we'll introduce them with the word I instead of wheat. And that's where some of that rub comes, right. So imagine a brand new service member coming out of uniform sitting across from a hiring manager. And that hiring manager says, john, sell me on you tell me why you're great. And john says, well, ma'am, when I was in uniform, we did this and my squad, I was so proud of them, they did this or my unit did this, that hiring manager, right, going back to your numbers is 90 plus percent odds, they're a civilian, and they don't understand why john isn't speaking about himself. Why isn't he taking credit for the accomplishments he had in uniform? They don't understand that vac collective mentality. So there's some fundamental differences in how we talk about ourselves. And that can present challenges, especially as you're trying to let people know who you are, and what you want to be hired or found by. But that's very different than being arrogant or pushy, or bragging. It's a huge spectrum. And bragging and arrogance is on one end, and the rest of it is confidence and clarity around who you are and what you can offer.

Yeah, yeah, it's a challenge in itself. And it's almost like an art. Right?

It's it's a little, it's more art than science, for sure. The balance? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, if you've got some good self check mechanisms, or some good friends, who you send support systems that you surround yourself with, they'll pull you back, if you get a little too far ahead of yourself, right? You're you're talking about yourself a little bit much these days. All right, kind of dial that back a little bit.

Right. And just sitting here listening to you think talking about that. I don't even know if you have experience with this. But have you worked with first responders like firefighters, police officers who also have the same problem with bridging humbleness versus bragging about themselves with their accomplishments.

You know, I have a colleague in New York, who works a lot with NYPD and ny fd. And she and I've talked about this quite a bit. She helps them write resumes. And it's interesting, she said, that's one of the hardest things is getting them to be forthcoming about the things they have done that they should be proud of. Not not the things that are over the top, but the things they should be proud of. And it's a very similar response, you know, it's all in the line of duty. So why would I take credit for it? in the military, what I what I also hear is, I don't want to take credit for someone else's work. So I'd rather depreciate my own value and give them more attention. And that's wonderful. It's just it doesn't play the same in the civilian sector.

Yeah, I definitely understand what you're saying, because I've helped mentor people with interviews before. And I almost have to beat him over the head and say, Stop saying, We, it's I, you save the world, you saved the city's population from getting wiped out. You did all this stuff, like and it's, it's something that's very difficult to break, because I dealt with the same thing as well.

I have a funny story. I had two that I was mentoring a gentleman and he came was coming out of the army after many, many years, and he wanted to become a leadership coach. And I said, Okay, I mean, how many 1000s of leadership coaches are there? And I kept saying to him, you know, what was it about your military duty that, you know, is leading you in this direction, and he talked about the appreciation for leadership and the difference between management. He was giving me like all the same credentials as any other leadership coach, and I was just pulling and pulling. I was trying to figure out why he was passionate about this. Who his target audience would be? And he kind of let it slip? And he goes, I don't know if this would be anything. But he said, I taught leadership at West Point for about 15 years, right? And I said, Are you kidding me? Like, yes, that's a big deal. Like not everybody can say that. And being such an such an institution of you know, excellence, and you taught leadership. That's a value to bring forward. But to him it. It didn't seem like anything. Yeah, that's something.

Oh, yeah, that's a huge, that's the one of the best service that's the best service Academy out there for the army. Yeah.

said like an army man.

Exactly. So how would I know from an interview, if my brand resonates with an organization's culture?

Well, a lot of that I don't know that you'll know it from an interview, you'll know it before you go to the interview, right? Because when you have a brand, when you're strategic about the way you want to show up in this world, and the way you want people to perceive you, then you have certain values that that is anchored into, you have certain key words that are circulating around you, right, what do you want to be known for? And how do you want to have people experience you? When you're doing the research for that interview, you're going to look at company websites, you'll do informational interviews, you'll talk to people and ask about that company culture. What are the values of that organization? How are those values actually put into action, right, because values plus action, and you'll match those up before you get to the interview? I think one really good sort of gut check for yourself is when you leave a job interview, having done that work before the interview, if you leave a job interview, and you feel like you really got to be yourself, right? Going back to my Hollywood analogy, you didn't feel like you were playing the part of who you thought they wanted to see. Or you were, you didn't feel like you were sounding fake or disingenuous. If you felt like, man, I was like the best version of myself in that interview, maybe I didn't have all the answers, and I've got some follow up. But I felt like me, that's a really good indication that your brand was in alignment with what the company is looking for. And that's a really good sign.

Yeah, it's kind of like intuition.

It is intuition. But I would say it's even a little bit more strategic than that. I mean, intuition is what's going to keep you in agreement with your brand, for sure. But doing the homework ahead of time, because I want I want to empower people that if they see something, or they hear something about a company that sends up red flags, that maybe this company's values isn't aligned with my values, or maybe the way they do business is not what I would be proud to represent. Or maybe the people that work there aren't like me and won't understand me, I want people to have the power and the confidence to say, there's another company behind this company. So I'm just going to move around this one and go to that one. Because there's so many possibilities out there.

So during the act now, education, presentation, that almost rhymes that you did, and an audience member had asked about laterally, transferring from the military, to a civilian career. As I was transitioning out of the military, I was seeking specifically a medical sales position. I had interviewed several times for such a position. And during my interviews, I really tried hard to draw that line from my military experiences by explaining the obstacles that I had to overcome, utilizing sales tactics, to make projects, you know, happen and make them complete successfully. Recall at the end of one interview, I boldly asked the recruiter sitting across from me, I said, Is there anything within my interview or resume that would question whether I'm the best candidate for this position? And that's kind of a bold thing to ask because you're asking me for the truth. Right? And the answer that I received was we just don't see it. You don't have any direct sales experience. And so I left frustrated, because in the military, I don't know of any positions that require direct selling of anything. How could someone clearly convey themselves across industrial lines, industrial tasks, such as going from operations to sales?

Well, I think that the essence of that question is, is making sure you're looking at what are those exportable skills, not just transferable, but what are the skills that are exportable from one career into the other? We know, for instance, somebody coming out of the military as a sniper is probably not going to find a lot of job openings for that kind of work in the corporate field, right? Not huge demand. So it's What are those exploitable skills? What is the training and the discipline and the hard and soft skills that were learned and your responsibility as the service member taking off the uniform is to make that understandable to the hiring manager. Right. So you being asked, I don't see any, you know, direct sales? Well, there was a question somewhere along the way in that interview that you didn't answer, right. And maybe they said, Tell us about your experience selling. And you may have said, Well, I didn't sell. Well, if you're there for a sales job, that could be a challenge. And you know, it's a real problem. I talked to a guy who had gone up for a project management job. And they didn't require a project management certification, but it was a project management job. And I coached him and in the interview, he was asked, tell us about a project you managed. And similar to your answer. He said, I've never managed a project. And when we were talking, I said, Why would you say that? Of course, you've managed and he goes, No, I've managed missions, never projects. I was like, dude, okay, it's semantics. And I know that semantics matter, right. But his skills, his qualifications, were perfect for the job he was interviewing for your responsibility as the applicant is to find those threads and connect to them. We call that a narrative, right? So somebody coming out of the military as a weapons mechanic who wants to go into pharmaceutical sales? Well, you're going to have to find those aspects of what it took to be a really good weapons mechanic. And make sure that that connects even abstractly to what the job description is asking for. Because you didn't do pharmaceutical sales, right? You didn't do direct sales in the military. But there were aspects of convincing people being persuasive understanding and listening to a customer's needs that you did. And you have to bring that forward. If you're relying on the recruiter or even the interviewer to do that. They don't have bandwidth for that, especially not in this market, we need applicants to come to the table with a lot of that already done.

Right? That makes a lot of sense. So I had some experiences with my first event employer as far as them understanding military culture, me understanding surveying culture, and the expectations. I really believe that my first employer wanted to do the right thing by hiring military veterans. But perhaps the expectation wasn't on target with what our experiences were aligned with. So during the act now presentation, you mentioned that a lot of employers end up reading your book, your next mission, in order to better understand the military and its career culture. So why would any employer find value in going that extra mile by reading literature? Or your book, to properly hire military veterans? Why not just skip the book, and hire what they already know what they're comfortable with? And what they're familiar with? What would you say to such an employer?

Sure. So one of the things I found interesting when I wrote my first book for the military, which was called your next mission, I wrote it because I couldn't be in in all these places, I was being asked to go and there were so many service members getting ready to leave the military who had heard this concept and wanted my advice. And I just couldn't scale fast enough. So I wrote a book and it became very, very widely distributed. And and I was sharing with you that what was surprising is how many employers actually read the book because they saw me as sort of a unicorn, right? a civilian who cracked the code on a military veteran, right? Who are these people that are so mysterious, but they look and sound like me, I do think that a lot of employers are motivated to want to hire prior military, because we've been taught that there are character traits, there are values that come with a veteran, that maybe a civilian doesn't have, or or doesn't express in the same way, values of loyalty and duty and commitment and service, problem solving, process solving. Right. And so companies are attracted to that, I think, where the challenge comes in, and what they engage me for typically, is understanding some of the language differences, some of the cultural differences, right, because you'll present as a very different candidate for a job than a civilian who might be right out of school or has had a few jobs already. There are some differences. And when you look at the bandwidth of a typical recruiter, they're not skilled up on how to interview a military candidate versus a civilian candidate. So it's easier yes to hire a civilian, but they're attracted to that veteran. So what I try to do is get in there and give them some tools. So that they have good resume questions, they can ask good interview questions, they understand what they're not supposed to ask in an interview. And then when they hire that candidate, we want to make sure that the onboarding process is smooth. And it's a little different for a veteran than it is for somebody who's had a few jobs under their belt. And they know how it works. Because a lot of companies that hired veterans, what they realized is, if they didn't do a good job sourcing and hiring, and onboarding, their retention numbers are terrible, or a one employer that I'm working with now as a problem with the veterans in their company that are staying, it's wonderful, but they're not growing into leadership ranks. So how do you know some of these employers are now looking at how do we right size our systems to make sure that that candidate who came to us from the military who became part of our team, how do we make sure they know how to grow here, not just collect a paycheck? Because I'd like to believe that a lot of companies do want to do the right thing. And they are as respectful and grateful for military service as I am. Sometimes it's just a matter of they don't know what they don't know.

Right? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So would you say that military candidates have various advantages over civilians? And do they need to learn to capitalize on those strengths in order to become more marketable and reliable employees?

Oh, I think you know, what, during the pandemic, I think 100%, they do? I've had a lot of folks tell me, oh, I'm just going to re enlist, I'm just gonna stay in the military, because this is a terrible time to find a job. And I couldn't think differently. I mean, I think right now is a great time for a veteran to come into the job market. Yes, competition is much higher. employers don't just have to recruit people in their own backyard anymore. Because if we're not going to the office, it really doesn't matter where you're based. Right? You can be in Colorado Springs and work for a company in New York City. Because right now, we're not meeting face to face. And yes, that may change slowly over the next year. But here's something veterans bring into the market that a typical civilian who comes up a very traditional path may not have. And that is an amazing ability to adapt to change, to handle stress and adversity, and to be resilient in the face of really challenging times. And that's what we're all dealing with right now. So the veterans that come into the market that say, Yes, I have project management skills, or Yes, I've worked as a logistician. And not just that, but here's where I shine. I build teams, I keep morale high. I like to surround myself with people who are energetic and, and I will keep them motivated and challenged and happy in their work. That's something a veteran can do. Because, you know, being in the military is not easy. And you've dealt with a lot of hard times. So this in some ways, is a great way for you to show that and bring that forward. But it also means you have to bring those exportable skills, you can't just rest on military service and experience to make yourself competitive.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. He you use that word, logistician. And it kind of made me smile for a second because a lot of the presentations that I watched with you I identified with that there were terms that I was using when I got out that I thought everybody knew I had logistician was one of them. And, you know, and I think he told a story where you said something about logistician. What is that? Well, logistician is logistician, like, you know, yeah, complete different jargon, complete different culture. So I use that word, everything that you're saying totally makes 100% sense. And it's all about perception. So this one is a big one for me. Okay, because it's something that I struggled with, even when I was a, an officer in the army, because the way I felt when I was in the military was that it wasn't just my job to issue out tasks. It wasn't just my job to make sure that everybody was accountable for formation, but it was also my job to make sure that I would mentor. Yeah, and one of the biggest problems that I had early on as a mentor was trying to explain to that 18 to 27 year old military service member, the importance to start early planning for their career, after the military. What strategy would you suggest or how would you position a conversation with a young military person about fully understanding the bigger picture on preparing and planning,

you know, and that's a tricky one because when you join the middle Terry, your focus is on what you're going to do while you're in service. And that's a good thing, right? That keeps you safe and keeps others safe. But the reality is there will be a day, no matter how long you're in uniform, there will be a day when you're not right at the end of your military career, whether that's four years or 34 years, there will be a day when you step out of uniform. And what will that look like? Right in the military promotion and advancement is much more predictable. guidelines are set, you know where the guardrails are. And you just, you know, as long as you follow that path, you pretty much know what to expect. But when you step out of uniform, and out of that culture, all bets are off. And it's a free for all. So if you have a sense of what you might want to do after you take the uniform off, even on your your first day of basic training, if you can think you know, I'm here to learn these skills, because when I'm done with my military commitment, I want to be an entrepreneur, or I want to go work in the tech sector, or I want to go work in healthcare and serve people in that capacity, you can be laying the foundation for that, while you're actually doing your military service. You know, I love to get a call from someone when they're 18 or 24 months out from separation or, or retirement, because that tells me that they're starting to think about what they're planning for afterwards. The ones that make me nervous is when I asked about a separation date, and they say it's Tuesday. And they have no idea what they want to do. Right? It's like, wow, what were you thinking about all these years? Um, it's, it's still workable. But we should always be thinking about how we plan to grow and mature and evolve and build towards something else. We want you focused on military service while you're in uniform. But there will be a day when that uniform comes off. And what do you want it to look like? Hopefully, you'll have that choice. I've worked with a lot of service disabled veterans, who thought they had a long runway ahead of them in the military, and that got changed. And their ability to career plan in very quick time was certainly a challenge. But it's certainly doable.

One of the ways that I've always packaged things for perception is just explaining to you know, a younger, professional, you know, when I say younger, I mean, when I was a lieutenant, I was probably 25 years old, talking to a 23 year old, right? So at the end of the day, it was like, Yeah, why am I standing here, right. So one of the ways that I would package things is I would simply put it to them like this, I would say life is sort of like standing in a big empty field, and you have a choice, you can either start walking in place, or you can start walking in a general direction, I like this direction. So I'm gonna start walking in this direction. And as you walk in that direction, you have different opportunities present themselves to you. So let's say you do want to get into business and you know, you want to get into business. So you're getting certifications, you're getting your degree in business, you're not sure what you want to do, but you're walking in that business direction. And while you're in the military, you're getting your education and your certs done. opportunities present themselves to you, you have the chance of either passing them by or taking them on. And that's probably the best way whenever I tell a young military service member, you know, why should I take these classes? You know, I plan on staying in forever. Yeah, but, you know, things happen, well, what interests you what business interests me, well, then start researching and start educating yourself on it, and start walking in that direction. Because at the end of the day, freedom is having choices, and being able to laterally move. And sometimes it gets through to people, and sometimes it doesn't, you

know, and I would even add to that, um, one of the reasons I'm so such a big fan of building a brand and a brand strategy is that's also a layer of criteria. Right? So I always use the analogy that when when everything carries equal weight, how do you know what to choose? Right? every possible person could be a client? Well, not really. I mean, let's think about it. Some people don't have the money, some people would be a pain to work with. So who is really your target audience, and when you start distilling it down and getting more focused, many people panic because they're afraid they're going to leave something out. But to your point of walking in a direction, all of a sudden, things feel less random. And I know you said when I was telling the story of the football game that you know, things happen for a reason. I think things show up. for a reason. It is not uncommon when I've worked with a client that they'll may email me and say, Oh my gosh, I just got five recruiters reach out to me. This is like magic. No, it's not magic. It's because you were focused on the career that you want. You keyword tagged your LinkedIn profile. You're Networking into those companies. Why do you think those recruiters reached out to you? These things feel like I fall out of the sky. But you know, it's Alice in Wonderland getting to that, that fork in the road. And when she asked the Cheshire Cat in the story of Alice in Wonderland, she said, I'm at a fork in the road, which way do I go? And he said, Well, where are you headed? And she says, I know where and he goes, then it really doesn't matter. When you have a direction, you know which way to go. And you have a sense. And the beauty of all this is you can change direction, too. How many of us go from working in corporate America to being entrepreneurs? To go from being a doctor, to being a motivational speaker, to being an MP in the army to being you know, a pharmaceutical sales? rep, we get to do that. That's freedom.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So how does one develop this mindset that we keep talking about where they both through themselves speak the marketing language and recognize the abilities and skills they have developed throughout their military career? It can often be hard for those who have never had to craft their own narrative before.

Oh, 100%, right. I mean, I, I'm dealing with folks who've never written a resume. They're just like, so do I list everything I've done? And my responses? Oh, please, no, because your narrative is your story, right? Your narrative is who you are, what makes you valuable and unique and compelling. And who is the audience that you want to read that. So to write your story with no sense of who the audience is, is to write something that's generic, because you're trying to catch anything, right? To write something specific to an audience, but not be genuine, isn't to be branded. So the steps that I take people through are thinking, first of all about your values, because the values are the foundation of anything authentic, and branding, and look at the ways that you want to be known. So as you tell your story, you're going to have choices, right? in telling my story, I could use the word marketing, because that's my trade. But I don't want to be known as a marketing person. I'm a personal branding expert. I'm a reputation management expert. So I specifically use words to describe myself when I talk about myself that anchor in that if I was to put together a resume, which thankfully, I haven't had to do in years. When I look back even over my career, I wouldn't highlight the things that don't relate to the value I offer today. Because why would I highlight things that are going to distract you from reputation management and personal branding, which is what I want to be known for. And that's a mistake many of you all are making is you're trying to throw everything out there in case it happens to catch, but not realizing that you're catching things you don't want. So telling your own story means you close down the aperture and tell the story through the lens that you want it told. What is your background mean? What what life have you lived to this point that makes you interesting? And what value could you offer going forward? That's that's a tricky, very difficult process to go through. But once you nail that, everything else becomes easy. Putting together a LinkedIn profile easy. introducing yourself at a cocktail party or a networking event. Easy, because you have that that narrative in place.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, because when I was interviewing for jobs, when I got out, I had a coach, sort of an interview coach that told me straight up, he said, Look, you're, you're behind the eight ball. The folks that are going to be interviewing with you today are Academy graduates. You're just an ROTC guy. You know, they, they have all these technical skills. They were pilots, they were this they were that, you know, your narrative and who you are. You're a scrapper, like you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth, everything that you that you got you earned on your own. You joined the military right out of high school. And then you continued your service became an officer and I was thinking to myself, yeah, like that is my narrative like, that's what's that's what I'm going to explain myself as because that's what I am like, I am a scrapper like and I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. And that's what I have to offer these folks that are looking for, for recruits is I have that to offer that I'm going to fight for everything to do the best job that I possibly can.

And in your case, I would even take it and I'm just gonna play armchair coach here for a second. I would even say that people don't put job descriptions out there for scrappers, right. I mean, that's not very correct. But what you're doing and having that narrative in your back pocket is to say when I see a job opening for someone to come in and do a SWOT analysis and solve problems and create recommendations that are maybe innovative or creative. That's me because my background, I'm scrappy. I am a scrapper, I know how to pull things together, didn't learn it in an Ivy League institution, I learned it because I'm resourceful and resilient. And I'm creative. That's how the narrative works.

Right? That's exactly right. Yep. During one of your past presentations, you shared multiple LinkedIn profile pictures that were ideal. And then you shared some that were less than ideal, and most military tend to be less involved with social media. And even I struggle with sharing myself on social media, some feel that when you put yourself out there, you open yourself up to ridicule and some degree of vulnerability. What would you say to someone exiting the military, who struggles with social media and sharing themselves? Oh,

I navigate that challenge almost weekly. Anytime I teach online positioning digital capital, we call it reputation online. To a military audience, the first thing I get is, I don't want people knowing my business. I want to keep certain things private, and I'm going to stay off of social media, so nobody can bother me. And And hey, you know what, if that works, you are the one person in the world that can have that strategy. For the rest of us, we need to be found. We need people to know how to reach us how to refer us how to look through our experience to see if we're a fit for an opportunity. So make it a choice, not because there's something about the unknown that intimidates or scares you. And with that said, you know, the beauty about something like LinkedIn is it as a professional site, it doesn't have the social casual carelessness as maybe something like Instagram, or Facebook, or even Twitter, where people typically make more mistakes than they do on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a professional site of business minded individuals, right from all around the world, you only put on LinkedIn information you want me to know. So if you don't want me to know how old you are, don't put the years you went to high school, don't put your birth year. If you want me to see the area you grew up in, you're going to put that information because I might have grown up in the same area. And it would be a really nice way to start a conversation. If you want me to know that you're a Purple Heart recipient, put it on there, if you feel that that's private, don't put it on LinkedIn, the beauty of social media is we have a lot more control than people think. And there's this belief that once you cross the threshold, and you make yourself found on LinkedIn, now everybody knows your business. And that's really not true. And the reality is, if I want to find out about someone, there are so many easy ways to find out about someone that you know, are still legal and ethical. But we can find that information if we really want. So keeping yourself away from recruiters away from opportunities and away from people who might refer and endorse you have a really clear reason and a strategy for that because otherwise you're missing opportunities.

You've been listening to the morning formation. This is part one of two of Lita citroens interview regarding the importance of personal brand and career transition. Stay tuned to part two, where she goes into details about evaluation, feedback, and practicing your pitch. Thank you for tuning in. This is the morning formation on kp. And for now we're out