TEDx Speaker & Military Career Personal Brand Strategist: Lida Citroën Interview Part 2

This episode is brought to you by act now education, go to www dot att now education.com for your free one on one coaching session. This is part two of Lita citroens interview regarding military career, personal branding, and career transition. Just to rehash, Lita has spent her career as an executive brand strategist, a well renowned consultant, and executive coach. And as an author. She's been featured in many publications and presentations to include Inc, Forbes, entrepreneur, Bloomberg, MSNBC, Google act now education, and was a TEDx speaker. In this next episode, we continue our conversation with Lita and we go into talking about evaluations, feedback, and practicing your pitch. So I've heard you talk on how feedback can lead to the desired brand that you're seeking to target. In the military, we get feedback through officer evaluation reports, done commissioned officer evaluation reports, what are some forms of feedback that are used in the civilian sector? And how can we use those individually to grow your career.

So every company can have a different type of feedback, right, and we have formal and informal, a formal feedback mechanism could be like a 360 evaluation, or a performance evaluation. There are informal forms of feedback where, let's say you're being considered for advancement or promotion, your manager might go and talk to others on your team to sort of get the Get the inside scoop on how it is to work with you. And feedback typically makes us uncomfortable, right? We feel vulnerable, giving somebody permission to critique us. But there is a big difference between skill based performance evaluation and brand perception evaluation, the work that I do in with my clients is perception based. So let's say you and I were working together, and I asked you, how do you think your reputation looks today? What do you think people rely on you for or refer you for? And you said, you know, the thing that they would all say is, I have a fantastic sense of humor, I am the funniest person in the room. Well, that may or may not be true. And if I went out, and I asked 10 people that you associate with, so describe him to me, what are the words that come to mind? And what if they said, He's collaborative, he's thoughtful, and he's got a great voice for podcasting. Hmm, humor didn't come up. Now we've got an interesting dilemma. Because your view on what you think you're perceived for versus their view is very different. So feedback can actually help us identify if there are blind spots, if you really want to be known as funny and engaging and entertaining, that feedback would be a challenge for you. So there's some opportunity in that, right, there's some opportunity to right size that, but it can also reflect some challenges. If I were to get feedback after delivering a keynote address, that my client felt I didn't connect with my audience, or I was too theoretical and not enough application based message, that would be a problem for me. But if I got feedback that my client said, well, you're kind of a loud, very strong personality, I'd be like, I'm okay with that. That's my personality, I'm a strong person. So we always have to evaluate feedback through the lens of what is it I'm working towards? So what is the type of perception I want people to have? And then does this feedback, give me data that helps me make a decision about my my communication, the way I'm behaving, the kind of people I associate with? So feedback, while it's May, sometimes sting can always be helpful if we take it through that lens, but again, it they're skill based, and then there's perception, and branding. The work that I do is not about what you do as much as it is who you are. So it's not related to job title as much as it is how people experience you who interact with you.

Yeah, as a young officer, I had to do quite a few nco yars and I had to get a couple of oars, which are officer evaluation reports to nco yars, or for the noncommissioned officers. And sometimes it's a tough conversation to have, you know, but as long as you have quantitative reasons, on you know why somebody is rated somewhere, it's, you know, you really can't debate that too much. You Yeah, it's it's definitely it's a different challenge, you know, to kind of keep, keep a pulse on, especially yourself, let alone anyone else,

you know, because if you didn't get that feedback, you could end up replicating the same mistake over and over and over. Right? And that's not going to get you where you want to go.

Right? Yes. So if I'm a service member preparing to leave military service within the next few months or a year, so who should I practice my pitch to better refine my overall story? In my brand?

That's a great question. I would say, as many people in your inner circle as you can, I wouldn't practice it with your dream employer in a first interview, right? Because if it needs refinement, or if it lands flat, Oh, um, your family and friends are going to be supportive. So practice it with them and ask them did I sound authentic? Did I sound like me, because these are people who know you practice it was some of your networking contacts, maybe your colleagues or people that you know, professionally, to get their sense of whether you communicated your value proposition and what makes you interesting and relevant, and what you can offer. But again, I wouldn't practice this so much in a really critical opportunity. Because if it doesn't work, and you need to refine it, you wouldn't have that chance. So practice it with people who are going to give you honest feedback, and ask them specifically for the kind of feedback that you want. That's why I delineate between friends and family and professional colleagues, because they'll give you different feedback.

Yeah, you're 100% right on that, and actually finding someone that really knows what they're hearing. And what they're looking at, is also challenging, too. If I choose my my great grandfather, who hasn't been an interview, or hasn't created a resume, or doesn't understand brand, to give me feedback, that's going to be a far cry from someone that's recently, you know, experienced, going through interviews after leaving the military. So it's important to be choosy about who you spend time with, and get that feedback from?

Well, and I have one client who we did a feedback survey, and she got some negative feedback, like freely negative feedback. And, and, and it was uncharacteristic, because this person didn't represent the way this feedback came in. And, and I asked my client, I said, Who did you choose to send all these feedback surveys to, and three people she had chosen were people that she had either gotten fired, or had advanced over in a promotion. And I said, Why would you do that? Of course, it skews the results, right? Not that we only want to ask for feedback from people who love us. But if you're going to skew the results, you're going to get what you end up with. And one, you know, one other way to think about that. I get a lot of professional headshots done for different marketing things. And I'll often run my photos by several people. And the biggest litmus test for me, though, is what my husband thinks, because I'll look for the quality of the photo, I'll look for its application in different formats. But I always show it to my husband and I say, Does this look like me? Because here's the person who knows me better than anyone else. And when he says, Oh, my gosh, that's you. That's usually what I take and run with, because that's how I want to show up to the world. I want to be very genuine and authentic. And he's going to hold the highest standard for that. So find people like that that are going to be the most critical, and the most genuine in their in their support and feedback.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense identifying those people in your circle who you want for that specific thing. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so which should I develop first? My brand? Or my resume?

Yes.

chicken or the egg?

You know, yeah. And I'm not a huge fan of resumes. I mean, I've been very vocal about this. Typically, what a resume does is it looks backwards, right? It's everything you've done in the past. So with that, what a brand does is it looks forward. So of course, I like branding, because it's all about the future. It's about promise, it's about beliefs. But a resume should still be branded. So my recommendation would be Think about your brand. And then if you're developing a resume at that point, then the pieces and the parts you include the tone, the formatting, everything will be consistent with what you want in the future. If you've already got a resume, and you're working on your brand, then look at your resume through a more critical eye. Ask yourself if I got this resume, what would I believe about the person who wrote it with the person who lived these experiences? Is that consistent stick with what you want in the future, because they have to match up your resume your LinkedIn profile the way other people introduce you and talk about you. All of these touch points need to be consistent, going out. And having a killer resume written by a stranger, where it's not authentic isn't going to work. If somebody meets you and says, Wait a minute, are you are you the same person that I'm reading here on paper, because that didn't match? Right? We want everything to be consistent. So my recommendation is always build the brand first, because it's easier to do the resume. But if you already have a resume, just make sure it lines up with what you're going to speak to in person.

A lot of things that you're describing are things that I had endured on my own, and had you came into my life in 2007. When I got out of the military, I could have avoided all the hours and hours that I took, writing my resume writing my cover letters, I even paid someone to write a resume. And it was horrible. It was just like, it wasn't me just like what you're describing right now. So folks that are listening out there, I mean, take it from someone that has done everything that she's saying not to do, and I can almost have a museum, an archive Museum of the first resume that I ever wrote, whether it's from high school or even from the military, to today. And it has evolved so much to the point of where it's me like it's truly me. It's who I am.

You should show. That's

Yeah. And so with that being said, it's sometimes it is just you know, going through and and doing it and speaking to people finding out, you know, like we talked earlier about narrative. had that person not told me like, Look, you need to describe yourself as a scrapper, that's who you are. I look at your resume, I see all these things on here. You tell me about your story. This is who you are, this is what makes you different than everyone else. And I'm like, Well, if I'd never had this conversation, I would never, I would never know that. So it's just almost like over time, just talking to different people and honing, honing your spear honing your craft, I guess, is kind of what it is. But listening to people like you, I mean, can obviously shortcut. And you don't have to go through all this stuff that I went through, like I paid, I paid 200 I feel like 100 $200 to get someone to write a resume for me. And when I got it, I was just like, yeah, this is I'm not using this.

And there are good resume writers, I certainly don't want to imply that it's not an option, right? Because for many of you coming out of the military, this is the first time you've ever written a resume. So how do you even know where to start finding someone who can help you through that process? I would say especially if you're going into government jobs, there are experts who know how to write resumes for government jobs, just always keep that critical lens of does it sound like me? Do I feel competent, that if I was asked about any bullet point on that resume that I could confidently and clearly explain it. And if it doesn't feel like you keep working at it, but it doesn't hurt to to hire somebody if that makes the process go faster for you.

Right. And then the challenge with that is, is sort of like with me, when I was looking for a new intro for my podcast, I'm looking for new marketing for my podcast, I go out into the sea of freelancers out there. And I see like 10s of 1000s of them. And I'm like, Who do I pick? So it's the same thing with resumes to Like, who do you pick, like, you just have so many out there. And you're right. There are some great people out there that do awesome jobs, and they actually take the time to talk to you and get to know you, and who you are. And then there's ones out there that are just like, yeah, send me your information. And then I'll just smash it together and make fancy words. So it's, that's a challenge in itself.

Well, and that's right. Ask somebody you know, right. If you, you know, have a really good resume, ask about the process. What kind of questions that this person asked, Did they just say, send me a list of what you've done? Or did they interview you and ask about your goals and your dreams and what you value? And how did that show up in the document? Because it should be a document you're proud of? Right? Yeah,

yep. So how would I develop a brand when I'm just starting out? Or in a whole new profession?

Oh, well, you can always read my book. You know, go, Hey, um, brand is a fluid process, right? So it's not, it's not like getting a certification, where you do these three things, and boom, you have a brand. It's a lot of self discovery. And I always tell people, it's a simple process, but it's not easy. Because when I take audiences through this, for instance, I make them very uncomfortable. I'm asking you about your values and your dreams and your passions and what scares you and what inspires And all of that is to make you crystal clear on who you are and how you want to show up in this world. Because if you're not clear on that, you tend to start looking generic, right? And that's where again, we try to be everything to everybody. Or we try to say what we think they want to hear, which is right. When an actor does, he tries to read the script, the way the writer and the director and the producer want it to come out, which is great for that medium. But for the rest of us, how do we know how to be authentic and genuine, unless we do that self discovery process? So I always say branding is a very inside out outside in process. We also need to think about who's our audience, who do we want to attract to us, I was ready on November 9 2009, to attract an opportunity like working with the military, I knew that there was going to be a part of my entrepreneurship that had service, I'd always been on boards of directors, I'd always had philanthropy when I was in corporate as a part of my career. And I knew starting my own business, I didn't want to lose that. But I didn't know who who I was looking for, or who was looking for me. So I created the space for that. And that's why that message got through to me, because I was ready for it. And I had the space for it. So when you and I talked about these opportunities passing in front of us, I think they pass all the time, we're just not ready for them, or we don't have the space and therefore we see past them. So thinking about who it is you want to serve, who you want to work with what kind of people what sort of dreams do you have? When I was writing my first book, your next mission. I remember a brilliant line from a colleague of mine. He's retired out as a colonel from the army, and he's with a huge employer today, doing diversity and inclusion. And he said, Lita, when you talk to veterans, tell them not to forget to dream. He said, we we lose that we forget that we get to dream just like anybody else. And he said, when you see somebody's dream, it's like, all things are possible. And the pieces start falling into place. And, and I know it sounds a little touchy feely, and you know, bunnies and unicorns, but but dreaming really is what keeps us as human beings moving forward. And yeah, when life is hard, or things are challenging, or they're not working the way that we were hoping, if we have a dream, then we're able to be more resilient in those moments when they aren't lined up, because we have a vision of what we're working towards. And so building your brand, even starting out your career, thinking about your values, and what you dream about, and maybe you don't have it all figured out. But to your point, you're moving in a direction, right? You got up off the bench, and you're in the game, you just might be a backup, you know, you're not on the starting lineup. That's okay. Because forward motion is forward motion. And making really good choices along the way is going to ensure that when that moment is right, that you're ready for it, and that moment can find you.

Yeah, I tell you something, as far as reading your, your, your books, I mean, after doing research on you, and watching your presentations and your concepts, your perceptions, everything, your character, even though I'm not separating from the military, I am going to look into your books, because I think that it would build, it's not just for people that are, you know, leaving the military or anything like that is, I think that just overall concept wise, I think it would make me a much better, more achievable person, just based off of listening to the many presentations that you've put on the interviews that you've put on as well. So anyone listening out there, I mean, don't get me wrong, these books were not just for people in a specific time of their lives or, or anything like that. And I would even say, I mean, if you're a civilian, maybe just to just to take a look at them as well. I know you mentioned before that for employers. Your next mission is one of the best books to read.

Yeah. And I actually wrote a book for employers, it's more of a guide, called engaging with veteran talent, because so many of them were buying this book that was designed for somebody coming out of the military. So I have two books that are for service members, military spouses, people exiting the military culture, your next mission is really about the personal branding process. Then I wrote success after service and published that last year, which is really a roadmap for somebody about, you know, anywhere from 30 days to 24 months before exiting the military. All the steps that you need to work on to get a job.

Okay, yeah. So my question to you is this after listeners listen to this podcast? What is the one thing that they should start doing immediate And I know it's kind of open because everyone's in a different place. What would you say the one thing that they should do immediately,

you know, it's gonna sound easy, but it isn't. And that is start paying attention. start paying attention to the things that you're posting online, the way you're engaging with people how quickly you're responding to email, the way you show up on a zoom meeting, who you connect with online and who you don't, the way that you're being introduced, start paying attention, because these things might seem small, but they all add up, and they tell me something about you. And if you're not paying attention, someone else is. And if they're not finding what they want, they're going to pass you over. So pay attention, dial up the energy on the things you want to be found for. And the only way to know that is to start paying attention.

Yeah, I find it very difficult. And the one thing I used to explain to a lot of people was getting that continuum and those lines to cross when it comes to salary, ideal job location, to get all those separate things to cross on that graph at the same time, is basically very difficult to do if you're not in position to do so. So that means already having your education taken care of having your social media squared away, having your LinkedIn, you know, squared away as well, making sure that everything is in line, because when that opportunity shows up, and you need to be paying attention so that you can actually say yes,

and make sure that the sequencing is correct, right. So somebody coming out of the military, who thinks they're going to step right into a corporate job as a as a director or a vice president, because they had a high rank in the military. Well, wait a minute, maybe you have to go backwards, a couple steps in your mind in order to accelerate faster. So be realistic about what that cadence looks like, you know, everybody wants their dream job right away. But what if you, to your point, have to get some education or have to learn the business world before you can really step into that dream job. That's why I say having a dream and having a plan is what gives you the patience, while you get that education while you sort of earn your stripes in maybe a job that isn't ideal. That's putting you on the path to what you really want. Exactly.

So now that we're talking just to wrap things up, what's next on the horizon? For Lita, you have any new books coming out anything?

Well, as a matter of fact, I do. Thank you for asking. I have a book coming out next month in May of 2021. called control the narrative. And it's an executives guide to building pivoting or repairing your reputation. And as much as I love serving my my military, friends and colleagues, I've written three books in the military conversation, and I had I've shelved this book for years, but was able to write it during quarantine. And what's amazing about it is I've shared so many stories and examples of professionals and individuals around the world that I've had the honor of serving and working with, who have built their brands have entered different markets have pivoted their reputation, and in many cases have found themselves making a mistake that they had to recover from. So this book will be available in May of 2021. And I'm really excited for it to serve a very different audience, some military friends are going to find some of the information equally relevant, but it's really written for more of a civilian audience.

Right? No, it sounds awesome. And I can really appreciate you know, every time you make a book, it's almost like being a force multiplier, sort of, and being able to, you know, spread the information and the knowledge that you have out there to, you know, different regions of the country and different people. So, thank you for taking the time to do that. And I'm definitely gonna look into some of the publications that you have. So I want to thank you for all and it was on everything. So I just want to wrap it up and say thank you for your time today. And most importantly, through my research, I know that you're a very genuine person. You are probably one of the most you probably the most genuine person that I've ever met before I met was met with a lot of flag waving when I got out of the service people saying thank you for your service. And yeah, it's all ad lib stuff, right? But one of the most incredible things that I ever heard you talk about was value plus action, equaling credibility. And you embody that because it's not your values are there but then definitely, if you go through just looking at everything that you've done in your career, for the military community, your actions, speak volumes, you know, and then that equals the credibility so that makes a lot of sense because I run into a lot of people. They're like, You know, I really feel really deeply about this. I feel deeply about that. Well, what are you doing about it? Yeah, nothing, nothing. So, everything from you being a mentor, I'm better at helping out the military community, I just want to say, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much. I really wish in 2007, that, you know, I had ran into you, and anyone out there listening right now, who's a veteran or a current service member, please invest in yourself, you started investing in yourself listening to this podcast, you can continue investing in yourself by purchasing one of latest books, and applying that to what's going on right now with you and your career. Because at the end of the day, what you invest in yourself today, education wise and skill wise, certification wise, you're going to reap the rewards down the road, when you actually do get on the military. And I just want to ask you, leader, where can folks listening right now connect with you?

Well, I'm pretty much on every social media platform that's out there. It's totally designed for my personality. LinkedIn is great. My website, Lita 360, dot com has a ton of the articles and YouTube has all my videos, and I'm pretty much everywhere. So wherever is most convenient for you, let's connect. Let me see how I can help get you over that hurdle of finding a civilian career that's meaningful and important and fulfilling, because really, I am so grateful for the service of the men and women who have worn the uniform to protect my freedom.

You know, I will also place your platform information in the show notes for anyone out there looking to make contact with Lita. And I'd also like to say that if you are a service member, military service member seeking to gain more information about what Lita spoke about today, check out her book, success after service. If you're an employer, please check out your next mission. And you also have what was the name of the other book that you wrote specifically for employers.

It's called engaging with veteran talent. All on Amazon,

on Amazon. Okay, any last words, Lita, for today for our listeners?

You know, I think we've had a really robust and fun conversation. I thank you so much for that. I wish you the best of luck with this podcast. Because I know a lot of people are going to be served by by the information that you're sharing and the people that you're bringing forward. So I would just say to anyone listening who enjoyed this conversation, tell your friends and subscribe to the podcast. No, thank

you so much. It means a lot. And to have someone of your level is nothing short of an honor for me.

You can make me blush I

know you've been on. You've been on TEDx before. You've been on all those publications that I mentioned earlier. And here you are on the morning formation. Just a small podcast that started a few months ago. So thank you from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate you and just the person that you are in the character that you are

my pleasure. Always.

Thank you so much, and everyone out there listening. Thank you for listening today. Again, if you want to get in touch with Lita, all the information for her platform, social media platform is going to be listed in the show notes. You can reach out to her you can find her also on LinkedIn. And she also has Lita 360. Calm, which is her website if you'd like to make contact with her. Thank you, everyone for listening today. You've been listening to the morning formation. This is Papa kilo, aka Kp and I'm out