The Difference Between a Job and a Profession with Medal of Honor Army MSG Earl Plumlee

KP: 0:34

This episode is powered by ACT NOW Education. Go to www.actnoweducation.com for free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty, veterans, military spouses, and children. Warriors fall in, it's time for formation. Today we're joined with a Medal of Honor recipient. We're very fortunate to have this guest. He actually began his military career by joining the Oklahoma Army National Guard while he was still in high school. Shortly after his high school graduation, he joined the United States Marine Corps from the years 2000 to 2008, which included many assignments all over the world as well as deployments in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2005, and again in 2008. After his last deployment as a US Marine, our guest today decided to join the US Army Special Forces in 2009. In April of 2013, our guest then did another combat deployment, this time to Afghanistan, where his experience, vast military training, and true grit would be challenged on 28 August 2013, when enemy insurgents conducted a complex attack on his FOB. And today, I am so grateful to have Medal of Honor US Army Master Sergeant, Earl Plumlee as a guest on The Morning Formation Podcast. Thank you for joining us today Master Sergeant Plumlee.

MSG Earl Plumlee: 1:53

No, it's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

KP: 1:57

So Master Sergeant, for those listeners out there, I think it would be great to explain the series of events that took place, which would eventually award you the distinguished Medal of Honor. So would you mind taking us back to 28 August 2013, in Afghanistan to the battle that occurred on your FOB?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 2:14

Yeah, no problem. So I had, I just come off of my ODA, and I was working for the AOB, which is the the company headquarters, we were getting ready for a change of command. And, you know, really just knocking out administrative tasks to take care of that. And we had just taken a change of command photo for the for the AOB, which is, one of the reasons I was able to react so quickly is, you know, I put all my, all my gear on, and I had my, my best picture-taking-sniper rifle. And I didn't ever go put it back in my, in my room, I left it in front of the company headquarters. I was in our med shed, just talking to our medic. And, you know, suddenly, we were, you know, both thrown to the floor by a tremendous explosion. At that time, we'd been receiving indirect fire for, every day for about two or three weeks. So we were both under the assumption that indirect fire from from either mortar or recoil-less rifle had hit the building we were in. So I walked outside, and I was gonna let everybody know not to come running over, because we were both fine. But as I walked outside, I noticed that the entire compound was kind of, had a fog of dust hanging over it. And then everybody was walking out of their buildings, thinking that their building had been hit. And I thought that was strange. And as I, I kind of looked and pivoted around, and because I could hear small arms fire picking up in the distance, and I see a, you know, a tremendous mushroom cloud, just extending up off the ground and, you know, above into the skyline. And that's when it kind of became apparent to me that this was a more significant attack. And I, you know, ran and put my kit on and grabbed my rifle and decided to figure out how I was going to get involved. You know, as soon as I'd gotten dressed, our, our mail clerk, who was off camp when when the bomb detonated, came flying up in the black Toyota that we use for that. And I went to get in it. And another buddy of mine, Nate Abkemeier, beat me to it and said, you know, like, "I'm driving." And so I didn't mind, I hopped in the passenger side. And then we started to pull out and bumped into another, you know, another friend of mine from my original ODA and he was on a four wheeler. And we told him to get off that four wheeler and hop with us. So we we loaded up as a little team and headed on out. So the SF camp was a small kind of compound unto itself on the larger FOB. And as we kind of pulled out from that, from the cover of the HESCO wall on the SF camp, we were taken under fire from enemy position, which you know, we called the hotel position. Which was a hotel that was under construction, which was 180 degrees from where the initial blast occurred, but they had a substantial number of fighters in there. And we were really the only thing moving around in the camp. So as soon as we left, we started getting engaged with small arms, which was exciting. We kind of debated what to do, whether we should get after those guys or proceed to the breach point. And we could kind of see the rest of the members of of the company kind of, you know, hitting their fighting positions and returning fire to the hotel. So we decided "We're mobile, it looks like this is pretty stable, let's go get down to the breach." As we covered that ground, just before we kind of broke out into the last covered area, my company warrant and then a medic from another ODA, came past us on a four wheeler. And I told my driver, you know, slow down, because I was going to, I was gonna dismount with my sniper rifle and, and see if I could get a higher area on one of the the walls or a tower and kind of cover that, that airfield area. And just as they pulled past us, they start receiving a tremendous amount of small arms fire. Couldn't really see where it was coming from, but I could see that there was a base of fire in a building just past the breach. So it was kind of our idea that that's where they were taking fire. So we decided that we were going to pull in between them in that small arms fire with our truck. It's something we rehearse endlessly. And we'll dismount on the non contact side and drag those guys out of the line of fire. And so I kicked my door open thinking we're gonna make a quick, you know, right hand turn into this, you know dismount, and start positioning my my sniper rifle, because it was not the most wieldy weapon inside of a Toyota Tacoma. But as we started that first part of the turn, we pulled right in the middle of what was their linkup point after they had assaulted throught the breach point. And, you know, pulled in to basically a school circle of insurgents. They, you know, stared back at us and I stared at them. And for about a half a second, I was like, "Well, what are these, Afghans are lost. I'll have to round these guys up and put them in the fight and get them facing the right direction." But they all you know, looked in board and started firing into the truck. And that's when we figured out that they were not Afghan army, that they were Taliban. So I, I presented my rifle out. And it's it's never jammed before or since, but it jammed right then.

KP: 8:45

Of course.

MSG Earl Plumlee: 8:47

Yeah, I got one round off, and then my rifle jammed. And I was pretty sure they, they had us at that point. So another thing that we rehearse endlessly is if your primary goes down, you transition to your secondary. And so that's what I did. And I figured if I could, I figured they had me, and if I could just buy a little bit of time, that Nate and Drew would, would be able to dismount and maneuver. So I advanced with my pistol, engaging them as fast as I could. And then I was kind of shocked when I made it to a slight piece of concealment, that I hadn't been hit. Didn't really make a whole lot of sense, but I didn't let it bother me too much. And I started trying to figure out what my, my next move would be. So I knew that I had a group of insurgents to my front. And I knew that there was some to my rear and left also, and I could hear the guys behind me, screaming for support, screaming for a medic. So I knew I couldn't go back around that corner. And I, you know, my pistol was almost exhausted of ammunition, and my rifle was still jammed. So the, the only thing I could think of was "I'll, I'll throw a hand grenade out here in the middle of the road. And that'll buy me, you know, at least three to five seconds of time so I can sort my rifle out." So I pulled the hand grenade out and just threw it in the blind, around that water tank. And just by, by luck, I guess, one of the first insurgents that I engaged with my pistol, I'd hit him. He wasn't dead, he was just kind of wounded laying there in the road. And that grenade stuck in between his hip and the ground. And, you know, I looked around at him, and he looked at me. And he didn't, he didn't even make an attempt to pull it off of him or roll off of it. He just pulled his rifle up and started engaging me as I pulled back behind this water tank. And then I went to work, locking my bolt to the rear, stripping that mag out and cleaning the, cleaning that jammed round out of my rifle. And the whole time I remember white pieces of plastic sprinkling down on me, because every time one of his rounds would come through, it would it would drop a small piece of plastic. And it was kind of like a light snow on my, on my rifle when I was getting it fixed. And I got the, I got my rifle back up, about the same time that grenade detonated. And I remember just seeing, seeing him kind of twirl around like a rag doll, which is highly unusual, you don't usually see stuff like that. In a, even in, you know, high high intensity combat. You know, there's people, you don't see bodies flying around, other than in a movie.

KP: 11:53

Right.

MSG Earl Plumlee: 11:56

And I was still kind of processing that, that that was, that was so unusual, and nobody was ever going to believe that. And I started hearing a snap thump, snap thump. And I remember sand like run down the back of my shirt. And that's when I, I turned on my left and I could see another insurgent about 100 meters away in a prone position, just taking slow aim fire at my head. And his zero must have been off just a little bit because he threw down a pretty nice group really, for them, probably a six to eight inch group on the wall right behind me. And, you know, I just turn and held center and broke a round, and then he just he you know, vaporized off the planet. And initially, I thought that a Polish tank maybe had engaged him. So I was kind of looking around to see, you know what had hit him. But there was still nothing out there on the airfield, except for us. So that's, that's when I, I figured out that he was wearing a suicide vest and my rifle had detonated it. You know, I remember thinking, "I hope, I hope he was out there by himself because that was the one suicide vest guy." You know, later turned out to be a false hope. So I didn't want to sit out, sit where I was at. And I knew that they were down there. And I figured the best thing would be to go engage them and, and keep up the pressure. Because I knew sooner or later that my guys that were with me that weren't wounded, would come and get in the fight. So I decided to grab a hold of them and keep them, keep them engaged until those guys could support me. So I started moving down toward the little crossroads, which is where I had last seen them. And I got about halfway down this little alley. And all of them kind of popped out and started engaging me with with their rifles. And I was just transitioning from target to target, just try to suppress them as best I could and get to cover and I got most of the way to this junction box. But you know, right before I got there, my rifle ran dry. And I knew that I only had around, three or four rounds left in my pistol. So I decided to attempt a Speed Reload on my rifle. So I dumped the mag, and as soon as I dumped the mag and it super elevated my muzzle to start that reload, the nearest fighter who was behind a corner of a Sealand container, did the classic, screamed "Allah Akbar" and through his, through his rifle into his sling, kind of swung down around him and then he sprinted toward me. And, you know, I reloaded as fast as I could and it felt like he was hanging on the end of my muzzle. He was definitely inside of 10 meters and I sent the bolt home and hit him with a few rounds and his vest detonated which blew me down and into the HESCO wall. I don't, I don't think that knocked me out, but it definitely kinda TKO'ed me. It took me a minute to figure out what was going on. And when I remember looking up in the, I could hear rifle going off and, you know that thick, heavy gravel, it's like for four to six inches that they used to like make the bed for a FOB, all the all that thick gravel that was in between my legs, I could see it like exploding. And that's when another insurgent had broke from cover, and was walking down on me, but he wasn't looking down his sights, he was just holding his rifle. And he was, you know, staring at me. So all of his rounds were landing down in between my, between my legs on the ground instead of, instead of hitting me. So, you know, I jerked my rifle up, and just hammer down on it, probably three to five rounds. And it, you know, folded him. And I got up and suppressed the rest of the, rest of the fighters that were, that I could identify and then ran out of ammo again. So I was like, "I don't want to, I'm not gonna chance that speed reload when, when guys are trying to tackle me with their suicide vest on. I'm going to go back around this corner, I'll reload and come back." So I dumped my mag and took off running back to where I originally came from. About the time I got to the corner, I started to pivot and turn around as I was locking my bolt to the, sending my bolt home, and I crashed right into Drew Bucyk, who was the Intelligence Sergeant on my, my ODA. And I was like, "Hey, Drew, I know right where they're at. Let's go get them." And he's like, "Yeah, let's go get them." So he and I went back down there. Him on the left me on the right, kind of providing some cross coverage. And I felt way more confident for some reason. Not being alone, having two guys, but wasn't quite enough. And we got most of the distance there. He was about to step over that last fighter that I had shot. And I remember telling him I was like "Drew they got suicide vests on. Don't, don't touch the bodies." And no sooner had the, you know, words been spoken, and that guy's vest went low order, which you know, it didn't explode, it just burned pretty vigorously. And it was probably a 20 or 30 foot blowtorch just blown in the sky. Which pushed Drew back over to my side. And he and I were both behind this electrical junction panel. And I think, I don't know have any grenades they had, but they had more than a few and grenades started detonating. And I believe from the video, it's something like 15 hand grenades that detonated in that little area. But Drew and I were trying to stay in the fight. And it was kind of, you know, pretty hard because literally every couple seconds, a hand grenade would detonate. And at one point, I remember getting hit right here at the base of my throat. And I looked down and I had thrown a hand grenade and hit me right in the chest. And I was leaning over that junction panel, I remember sweeping it off with my hand. And Drew told me he's like, "Hey, we gotta we gotta get out of here. They're gonna kill us." And so he kind of, he turned to run and, and grabbed me by the shoulder and pulled me and, we got about two or three steps and we both got blown down to the ground. And I remember kind of climbing up and was trying to get my,trying to put my rifle back into my, on my shoulder. And it was just, it was all messed up. I couldn't figure out what was going on. But as I looked down, there was a human arm from just below the elbow to the hand, had hit my scar in the buttstock and folded the buttstock around the arm. And then the sling was all tangled up in all of it, so I didn't really know how to fix that. So I I don't know, I grabbed the arm and picked it up and then Drew and I ran around the corner. And I threw that down and tried to get my my rifle repaired. And as I was sorting that out, our Warrant Officer Chief Colbert, he came limping up and he's, you know, asking, he's like, "What the hell you boys doing?" And, you know, Drew and I said the same thing. It's like, "Hey, we know right where they're at. Let's go get them." He's like, "Well, okay." And so I pushed back across and Chief was behind me and we're, we're about to round that corner again. And I was like, "Well, let me, let me reload." And I started sweeping my vest, and I didn't have any mags. And so I dumped the one out to see what I was working with. And I only had one bullet my magazine. And I remember telling Chief, I was like, "Chief, you have to you have to take point. I've only got one bullet." And he said, "Sure, I've, I've been shot, I'll just go walk front and get shot some more, so you don't have to worry about it." And he did, and anyway, we started moving back down to where that that junction panel was, and at this point, it was just a mess. There was a, there was pieces of bodies all over the place. Whether they were detonating them or Drew and I were hitting them and they're exploding, it was, it was unclear. But there was, you know, there was mismatched amounts of people just laying all over the place. But it was a lot quieter, nobody was shooting at us. And we remember Chief Colbert was like, "I think you guys got them all." And that was a cue for another insurgent to sit up at of one of the piles of dead bodies and bounce pass to hand grenades toward us, which caused everybody to run all willy nilly. And as those were detonating, I remember looking up and seeing Drew with a MP5 and he was you know, he was firing and turning back to his left and and at the same time he was doing that I could hear hear an AK47 firing to my rear. And one of the insurgents had just picked up, completely ran around the whole area and hooked around and attacked us from the rear. So I turned and fired my, my last two rounds. And whether I hit him or whether he just decided to detonate his vest, either ways his vest detonated and blew a soldier from the 10th mountain, a Ser. Mike Wallace, who had joined up with us and followed me and Chief down that alley, and blew his body most of the distance to me. And, you know, at this point, I was completely out of ammo, so I figured I'd be the, most useful purpose for me would be to to render some aid to him. So I grabbed him and pulled him into a UAV compound and started treating him. But at that point, I didn't know that that was, that was the last fighter at that at that time, but I didn't know that. And I saw civilian, that was, contractor that was hiding and, and I would really feel better if somebody was watching my back. So I called him over and I asked him if he knew how to use a rifle. And I gave him my rifle. I just locked the bolt on empty magazine and had him cover the gate while I treated Mike, but it seemed to, it worked for him, I guess he was comforted. I did what I could for Sergeant Wallace, but it was pretty severe. And but then it occurred to me you know, we're on a FOB, literally I could fire him and carry him to the surgical tent in probably 45 seconds if I wanted to, and they had a small ATV there. And I had the civilian go and grab it and loaded Sergeant Wallace onto it. And you know, told him I'd cover him and he pulled out and I covered him with my pocket knife. And got him to the surgical tent and then also got out of, got out his compound, away from that breach. That's it.

KP: 24:24

Wow. Wow. That's, that is seriously like something that you hear about only in movies. Everything that you described and talked about. And the one thing that I can tell you that I am familiar with is the confusion that happens after a blast. The first time I ever ran over an IED in Iraq, the first words out of my mouth was "What was that?" Because at that time, it was the last, it was the last thing that I ever, it's the last thing that was on my mind. Like I just was not expecting it. And that's when I learned that, you know, in life things happen when you least expect it. And you talked about the battle drills that took place and how the soldiers kind of orchestrated themselves in the right positions because you've practiced it so many times in rehearsals and in, in training. So that certainly resonates with me. And it's an absolutely amazing story and you're so courageous and just brave. But I know that from the time things were happening and quickly evolving, you were just reacting the way that you were supposed to react to that. And it's amazing that you can go back and retell that. And almost, do you see it in slow motion sometimes, like the way that some of the things took place?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 25:40

That's pretty interesting. Some of it is, some of it's probably faster than it happened, and, and then different parts of it are extremely slow. Yeah, I can almost tell you, you can almost diagnose how much stress I was under by how slow I was perceiving it. So, the...when Drew and I were down there, and all that, you know, just getting pummeled with hand grenades, every part of that is like, extremely slow. I even remember, firing my rifle and seeing the brass twirling in the air. That's one of the like, key memories I have, for some reason, which means I probably wasn't really aiming appropriately. But, yeah, those portions, when I was really being, you know, maxed out with stress, it was moving in slow speed.

KP: 26:35

Right and absolutely amazing story, Master Sergeant. A lot of courage and bravery and heroics going on, just in that story that that you just told us. But I want to take it back. Real quick to the beginning. When you initially joined the Army National Guard, what were you initially seeking to gain by joining the military?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 27:00

Well, if you really want to know, when movie Navy SEALs came out, I wanted to go and work with Charlie Sheen really bad. And then I found out that you can't actually do that while you're in high school. But they told me that you could join the National Guard as a junior in high school. So that's that's what I did. And and, you know, I was a 13 Mike MLRS crewman, which was pretty, a pretty neat job for you know, high school junior to get to go out and drive a trac vehicle on the weekends. It was, it wasn't free falling it with Charlie Sheen, but it was pretty fun.

KP: 27:48

Yeah, yeah, I think that's what we all we all have our reasons to start out with. But it's amazing that you switched over to the Marines. And then you went, eventually into the Army Special Forces. That's kind of unheard of to have, and not only that, but I read that you were in force recon as well, while you're in the Marines, which is, which is absolutely amazing that you made so many leaps, and so many transitions throughout your military service. And being a senior NCO now, you've seen a lot of service members transition out of the military. Do you have any advice for folks within our community who plan to make their career transition? Do you have any advice for anyone that might look at possibly leave the military and go to their, I guess, second career in the civilian side of things?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 28:34

I, you know, I always have my you know, look, before you leap thing. I think one of the, it seems to me that my my friends who get out whether they, they ETS, or whether they retire, if you don't have a plan on where you're going, don't go. And which it seems obvious, but a lot of guys will get, you know, they'll get kind of jaded with the work, and they'll decide to get out without having a clear goal or why they're getting out. So you know, establish those goals and define what you're going to do when you get out. And, and the second one be, manage your expectations. Because you're leaving a profession of arms, a brotherhood where when you have problems, you know, you just have to look to the guy next to you, and he's going to help you and the civilian sector not, it's not typically like that. You're kind of on your own. And most places don't care if you have problems, or if you need help. You're going to take care of that. And a lot of guys seem to have, that seems to be the biggest thing that bothers them, is the lack of camaraderie in most civilian workplaces.

KP: 29:52

Yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Whereas when I got up....I'm sorry, go ahead Master Sergeant.

MSG Earl Plumlee: 29:59

No, I was like, you know, I'm like, you know, a place like this. If I'm gone, and my wife has a problem, she calls, you know, one of my peers from work, who are also some of my best friends. That's her, that's her first attempt to fix any problem is to, to call people I work with. And you're not gonna see that anywhere else.

KP: 30:22

I agree 100%. That's exactly what I experienced when I got out the military and I started my first job working for an aeronautics company in 2007. When I got out of the military, I went to work. And that was a weird thing about it was, you know, 24/7, you take care of your your troops, you take care of your soldiers. And it was amazing to me how much that wasn't the case in the civilian world how, you know, there were several fellow employees that had passed away over the weekend, and how there really wasn't a whole lot of movement when it came to just memorializing or even having a pause of silence for those folks that worked years and years and years, you know, at the, at the place I was working at. So you're 100% correct on that, and, and you definitely want to make sure you look before you leapt. So that's two valid pieces of advice that I highly suggest for folks out there to take advantage of, and to prepare for that move. And like I said, I know you being a senior NCO now. That's something, you've seen a lot of servicemembers transition out and tried to make it on the civilian side. Would you also mind talking about the importance of mentorship?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 31:31

I think, you know, you need to seek out those mentors. Because especially in the in the civilian sector, a lot of people might not think of themselves as a mentor, until they're approached and asked to be maybe, be the first time they might think of themselves like that. Because the other thing, the civilian sector, there's no rank, and there's no, there's not even any force exerted for you to become a leader. And then their idea of a leader is probably not the same as ours. So when you're in the civilian sector, you know, find somebody who you respect and who you would like to emulate. And, you know, approach them and either just, you know, softly ask them for pointers or you know, you know, directly ask them to be a mentor, because maybe they never thought about doing it. And the other thing is, everyone's always looking for a positive model. Someone told me once that bad leadership will teach you way more than good leadership. And I certainly found that to be true whenever I work for, for bad leadership. I just I take copious notes of things that I'm not going to do and make sure I don't repeat what this person's doing.

KP: 32:48

Yeah, I think that's a key factor in itself, is to make sure you take notes on what bad leadership looks like in order for you to apply or not apply those things when you are standing in front of, in front of the formation. And Master Sergeant Plumlee, you know, upon your own future career transition, what do you think your plans are, when you make that second, when you make that leap and go for your second

MSG Earl Plumlee: 33:11

You know, I don't know. So I won't be career? getting out until I figure that out. But, I guess, something, one of my first teams sergeants in NSF, you know, he kind of told me, you know, "They don't pay us enough to work here, if you're not having fun. So the first day you, you're driving to work, and you're not excited to come, you know, get the hell out of here." That hasn't happened to me yet. Still having a pretty good time. But no, I don't know what I'll do or where I'll work. Because I just, I didn't really pay attention. And it's been 23 years now. So I guess I need to start thinking about it.

KP: 33:59

I really think the world could certainly use your type of leadership and your overall experience. So I'm really looking forward to and I'm hoping that you, that you also have an excellent career transition and a very, very meaningful landing spot as well when you do make that leap. And Master Sergeant Plumlee for anyone out there who's interested in following you on your social media platforms, or maybe connecting with you online on one of your platforms, how can they find you?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 34:27

I just set up an Instagram account that I've been kind of using to manage things like that. And I think it's it's Earl Plumlee Official on Instagram. That's been my first thing because I never really had any need for that until here recently.

KP: 34:46

I really appreciate how receptive you were because that's actually how I contacted you. I appreciated you communicating with me. I was actually shocked when I was reading about the battle that took place on 28 August. So I was like, "Well, I'll just take a shot at it and see if, see if I can contact him." And so I really appreciate you getting back with me, man. It's an absolute honor. You're, you're to date, the biggest guest that I've ever had. And and I really appreciate you. So, and I just want to ask you Mast Ser Plumlee... I'm sorry, go ahead.

MSG Earl Plumlee: 35:18

No, I guess uh, yeah, all the former recipients, you know, kind of gave me their lessons learned and they all, they all had different things to say but every single one of them told me to set up an Instagram account, to handle requests or else they'd start creeping in through other, other venues. So I set it up, and you were the first person that that, actually hit me up also, so.

KP: 35:47

Awesome. Yeah, I had actually contacted a few other Medal of Honor recipients over the span of the last year or so. And at the end of the day, just kind of like the communication just kind of fell apart. And so I didn't really go back to pursue it. So thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. And just to final out the episode,Master Sergeant Plumlee, do you have any final words of advice for our military community?

MSG Earl Plumlee: 36:16

For our military community, I think, you know, I would be careful getting out. The grass isn't always greener. And one thing that a military career pays you, it's a profession, a profession of arms. And I always tell people that the difference between a job and a profession, jobs pay you money, and professions pay your soul. So really understand what you're looking for in life. Before you go out there and find something you don't actually want.

KP: 36:51

That's very wise. I actually, when I got out, I can tell you that for the first few years, I absolutely missed the camaraderie. I missed the discipline. I missed the formations. And, you know, doing this type of thing and mentoring others myself and starting this podcast was kind of a reason why I did it, was because I wanted to get back to where I could positively affect other folks out there who are part of the military community. And so I really appreciate you coming on The Morning Formation today and telling your story and giving us some advice on career transition. Like I said, I know you're currently in right now. And you're a senior NCO and you've mentored countless, countless number of folks out there. And so at the end of the day, just hearing your wise, wise words of wisdom is very meaningful for me and our entire community of listeners out there. So I want to thank you Master Sergeant Plumlee for your time today. And for everyone out there listening. I want you to stay tuned, stay focused, and stay motivated. Warriors Fallout.